Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:51 -0500 From: Drew Wiggins <drew@multinet-media.com> To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah right Message-ID: <381A3E1A.C5372A5C@multinet-media.com> References: <199910292138.RAA18814@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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I've been debating whether or not to post to this legacy thread.
But I figure, what the heck...I'll add my 2 cents to the pot and
maybe someone can cash in on a car or boat or something.
It basically comes down to one decision. Do you want to do
it or not? If you like the ease of use of Windows, and don't want
to spend the time and effort to learn a new OS, then stick with
what you know. Personally, I do most of my day to day stuff
on a Winbox. Why? Because it IS easier, in my opinion. Do I
prefer Windows? No, I hate the thing and everything it stands for.
But the fact of the matter is that I use it for what it's intended. But,
if you want to broaden your horizons then buck it up and do it.
Don't expect everything be easy...could you learn Russian or
Chinese in a day, let alone a few hours? Excuse the Tom Hanks
impression, but UNIX is not supposed to be easy. If it was easy
then everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it good.
( or maybe that's just me being a control-freak again ).
Is RTFM a prerequisite for new UNIX users? If they want to
get anything out of me it is, and I'm generally a nice guy. I think
most people feel the same way.
If you've been monkey-trained to point and click, and you
are looking for a starting place, then master what you know: learn
dos inside and out, network functions, telnet, FTP, hosts, lmhosts,
establish a general knowledge of networking, write some batch files,
mess around with autoexec.bat and config.sys, learn a programming
language ( VB does not count ). It will make the transition a lot
easier. Then pickup a shell account and read a book on dos->unix
command translations. There are probably more similarities than
you imagine.
Will a try-out version of FBSD work...who knows? If it helps
build better users, then I'm all for it. If it creates a overpopulated
group of quiters who whine and moan, then I think I could do w/o.
IMHO, I think it may provide people who think they are interested
a chance to make a better decision without us all having to listen to
them and ourselves discussing what we've all heard a million times
( as I know this is not new information, so hold the hot stuff ).
Last but not least, let's make a quick comparison. Let's say
you just bought a brand new stick-shift Corvette. Then decided
that you didn't want to deal with having to learn how to drive a
car with a manual transmission. Would you complain to the
manufacturers, that they made the car too difficult to drive?
Or would you opt to drive another car, that's more suited to your
driving preferences? Just a thought.
FreeBSD Bob wrote:
> > > I agree. A simple easy-tryout version of FBSD would be nice.
> >
> > Frankly,
> > --cut--
> >
> > I've said it a hundred times, Microsoft and Windows have turned the
> > usually intelligent end-user into a brainless double-clicking fool.
>
> Generally, agreed. But, that still does not really negate the case
> for having a training wheels release, to help folks along. It could
> be tailored as a no-brainer where it steps you through installation,
> and setup, and general mundane tasks like adding users, shutdown,
> setting up mail, practicing a telnet/ftp session, etc. It is hard
> to train a newbie if they can't even get a basic working machine up
> for whatever reason. It would make a good case for having a basic
> system up in a ``dos/windoz/whatever'' emulator, for safety's sake.
> One could use the dos pdp-11 emulator running V7, or one could use
> minix, or one could use whatever. But, it might make more sense
> to run a ``mini-FreeBSD'' that way, and be good PR for the crew.
> That is probably thinking out too loud, but it is a reasonable
> possibility and approach. Whether or not it comes to pass, who knows.
>
> > Sure, MS may have made computers easy to use but it's been my experience
> > that when something looks too good to be true, it usually is. Afterall,
> > if you have to maintain and support as many Winsux boxes as I do, you'll
> > get bitter as well.
>
> I avoid such boxes, like the plague, although I am constrained to
> use an NT box locally for production use.... oh, well....
>
> > Man I sure miss my old Tandy Color Computer 3... in those days, computer
> > users were considered to be little men who hid in dark rooms with the
> > glow of a CRT illuminating their face, for the most part, this wasn't
> > too far from the truth.
>
> Well, I recently happened to run across one of my original CP/M boxes
> from 1981, for one whole buckeroo de realme in surplus. If I fire it
> up this weekend, in a darkened room.....(:+}}..... memories.....
>
> > The point of this rambling is, with UNIX/FreeBSD there is a big learning
> > curve if you're from the era of double-clicks, however, I found that
> > after the initial learning curve (ie: how to move around, etc) I found
> > it was the same comfortable place such as the old days of MS/PC-DOS ...
> > There is a curve involved, and UNIX is not there for
> > instant-gratification. And yes, when people tell you to RTFM it's for a
> > good reason and generally your own good.
>
> Sure, there is a large learning curve. And that is one reason I often
> suggest running a spare box (without those other systems aboard), so
> a newbie can crash it to his liking and learning. It won't really break,
> nor run across the table, but, it is good learning that way, if it can
> be crashed at will and brought up from the pits, again. That's a bit
> of ``the olde fashioned way'', but good training.
>
> RTFM does not always help, but it is good to keep the FM's handy as you
> are walking through the installs/crashes/whatever. More good reference
> for learning. Just because I may have been running computers of various
> sorts for over 20 years absolutely does not mean that even I don't have
> to keep one hand on the FM's, still, for reference. There is a lot there,
> and it is not all in one place. FreeBSD IS one of the easiest and smooth-
> est of the lot to run with, though. All newbies should be aware of those
> FM's, although I still am of the opinion that some sort of training wheels
> system, in conjunction with those FM's would be good for all newbies.
> Perhaps a FreeBSD version of the on-line unix training classes from
> here and there would be good juju. That would definitely make FreeBSD
> more visible, and possibly more attractive for newbies. IMHO there
> ought to be a way do do that online from FreeBSD.org, so newbies could
> test-drive from a windoz browser. Will it get done... who knows.
>
> > So if you want the easy road, stick with Winsux and I garauntee you'll
> > be no smarter then you were 5 minutes ago. If you want to get those
> > juices flowing in yer melon, then rough it out with UNIX and learn
> > something useful. Don't bother having some sort of infantile
> > temper-tantrum just because you don't know how to read. FreeBSD !=
> > Winsux ....
>
> I would wish all the newbies well, and goodspeed.... tantrums aside.....
>
> There is no easy road, and the learning curve seems to be around 6
> months to reach any productive efficiency. But, if they hang in
> there, they CAN do it.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Bob
>
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