From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 21:18:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209D8106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47B68FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1990690obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GMa7SsVfQnydnnas3cJ3IwsUaMT3XTKU7a6ViycH/Bs=; b=GfydoHYJ9pEnom2SEEpKmm7cDZHQcgsgQjoXqjTVhkzUViLuF46evCgP73EIaHHx+k 9Hk2fimgzsE0U0atAMCLy88+vQ+Dk/XD/pKEH6xAAi+8VXFm6jVJCvAO+j0kfPQtE8y6 WmEuZGmwqSTaRSWTa6ajwZH6/1kFOF1buMYEt5PXsUzg1icebUxJCZSz2n9lhqbqc/xP 1szLJzSZvIQIvCUIdw7Jz89qJktyHKlTvwCZTLHPm5dvrxODtMLg/HliOriP/hj8s6B4 KxaL4t13/kyLH+DdaJj1/TojP9n9GBHl9tmBHgkx3xleQ3Wna+wGCzE1fo3Q5QBIcTKR 2k4A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.41 with SMTP id h9mr15743962obo.7.1335561528176; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Jerry McAllister Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:49 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > > >FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > > > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need > > to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. > > > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded > > and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > the field and do not know better than that. > > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > more information and encouragement I would guess. > > ////jerry > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a "breath" to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a "hardened" FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk