From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 25 17:17:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610C814BBC13 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17858D0A6 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 859E314BBC12; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:35 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630C714BBC11 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from shxd.cx (mail.shxd.cx [64.201.244.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0384E8D0A2; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from [76.77.180.168] (port=61959 helo=eskarina.lan) by shxd.cx with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1gn534-0009ca-1b; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:13:46 -0800 From: Devin Teske Message-Id: <69E462A0-B9E9-4D26-898F-A96036227E65@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:17:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Devin Teske , Baptiste Daroussin , arch@freebsd.org To: Michael Gmelin References: <20190125165751.kpcjjncmf7j7maxd@ivaldir.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Sender: devin@shxd.cx X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0384E8D0A2 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.94 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.939,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:17:36 -0000 > On Jan 25, 2019, at 9:13 AM, Michael Gmelin = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 25. Jan 2019, at 17:57, Baptiste Daroussin = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi everyone, >>=20 >> I would like to import mksh in base, https://www.mirbsd.org/mksh.htm >> And make it the default root shell (not necessary in one step) >>=20 >> Why: >> 1/ it is tiny 400k (in the packaged version) all other shells fitting = the >> expectation are bigger >> 2/ it's default frontend in interactive mode is very close to what = most people >> are used to with bash and shells as default root shell on other BSD = and most >> linuxes >> 3/ from my narrow window csh as a default root shell is one of the = major >> complaint (usually the first thing a user get faced to) from new = comers and >> also for some long timers who are reinstalling a machine and have not = yet >> installed/configured a bourne compatible shell >>=20 >> What this proposal is _NOT_ about: >> 1/ the removal of tcsh from base >> 2/ any kid of denial of the quality and interest or features of csh >>=20 >> What do you think? >=20 > Without knowing mksh in detail, based on your description I=E2=80=99m = in favor of replacing csh with something closer to bash as the default = root shell. In over 20 years of FreeBSD I didn=E2=80=99t manage to warm = up with csh and none of the people I introduced to FreeBSD in that time = did either. >=20 Working at Vicor for 10 years, where phk and jelischer used to work, = nearly everyone there was well-versed in csh. I learned a lot of cool = stuff and features it had to offer (such as "repeat N cmd"). Now the = topic of replacing csh root shell with a bourne variant, I can't help = but think of those old-hands at Vicor. The people that, every time I = have lunch with, teach me ever more lore and impart priceless historical = data points. --=20 Devin=