From nobody Tue Sep 3 21:33:27 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WyzQ96l2Rz5MT6g for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 21:33:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=Yejt=QB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WyzQ92XjQz41Bt for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 21:33:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=Yejt=QB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84243D78AC; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 23:33:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1725399209; bh=wMQFWrRMAdzsMcbWI8XS0sfjslY55c2+B/9dBGOmaPA=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=pSsKgwNWeeJxhb6E4WGM0iYC+oy/HNdvFcWAPTDkpdzvw4ufsH5jFmDskf8yWp4iH QhDPScnqRtS61r8OKy6OUzv6TKcFeiqDE/rDEUlHQh6VZUS3i68pAnr8kn6o5TbotA Pv/jSdtSdIefR6YqM3MvUdvxkfViVgGlac7x7icg= Received: from [192.168.145.49] (ip-89-177-27-225.bb.vodafone.cz [89.177.27.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97F49D78DB; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 23:33:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1725399207; bh=wMQFWrRMAdzsMcbWI8XS0sfjslY55c2+B/9dBGOmaPA=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=vpm0KJllqmr6tfBAUpRy4H8HdunzSsJVbhFuao0CBk4suUkPt8gQX6tmK1f8IZ0Pv yfnTZC/JBIvutEVm/O0zwpPQggNnRfc1+CJ4WSPniL+I4V1IPyR7YGlU9c4Hl4cJ5R 31s3dUXzwd8S+icIXwIFf8XxYWRXY8UeMVGDANNE= Message-ID: <2915699d-5139-43fd-80af-877c1d290e8d@quip.cz> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 23:33:27 +0200 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM) To: David Cross , Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <202409031532.483FW0If007252@critter.freebsd.dk> <159D15FA-6235-484C-A54A-565E3CDEA690@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: <159D15FA-6235-484C-A54A-565E3CDEA690@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WyzQ92XjQz41Bt On 03/09/2024 21:36, David Cross wrote: [..] >> (The "toolchain-llvm" (meta-)port may have to be a short-cut, to >> not have the llvm port drag in everything and the kitchen-sink, >> which would be /precisely/ the same as the llvm which lives in src >> today.) >> >> This distribution format is neither more nor less perfect with >> respect to reproducible builds and "Reflections on trusting trust" >> than what we have today. >> >> And yes, we have ports written in Rust, why do you ask? >> >> Poul-Henning >> >> PS: I overdosed on release work 25+ years ago, and have not been >> paying them much attention since, but if this is what the pkgbase >> crew has been pushing for more than a decade, we all owe them an >> apology. > > As a quick note I constantly build freebsd from source. I do it for all of my systems for all updates, all patch releases. > > I may be an outlier here, but my impression from email, forum posts, and redit threads suggests it is at least somewhat common. > > There are ways to marry both worlds (like poudriere, which I also use to manage my empire), but I’d like to not completely discount the usecase; at the very least the ease of buildworld is important for the releasee engineering process > itself. We also build every update, or major version upgrade from /usr/src (and then distribute it to target machines by rsync as it is the fastest process for us) But I'm not saying it has to stay that way forever. I agree with what PHK describes. External toolchain or pkg base is a more promising future. Rebuilding LLVM / Rust (you name it) with each update of base or ports is a major pain now. Even if you need to rebuild a small subset of packages from ports you almost always end up rebuilding something that big and slow as LLVM, Rust, Cmake taking hours, but that's a different story. Kind regards Miroslav Lachman