From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 12 13:44:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D81016A468; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:44:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0C113C45A; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:44:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9918520A0; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:44:06 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86417207E; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:44:06 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 759D4844C0; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:44:06 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200801111917.m0BJHP8u018954@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:44:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200801111917.m0BJHP8u018954@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Fri\, 11 Jan 2008 20\:17\:25 +0100 \(CET\)") Message-ID: <86y7av5fbt.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: timo.schoeler@riscworks.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD's problems as seen by the BSDForen.de community X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:44:17 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > Certainly, but as I wrote, it's not a big deal. I have > several other patches that I maintain on my own for > various reasons. For example I have a local patch set > that enables "-c none" in ssh, so I can scp large files > much faster between slow machines over channels that don't > need encryption, and still be able to use ssh's features. > I don't even try to submit the patch to the OpenSSH people, > because they would reject it. Correct. > I considered submitting it as a local patch to the FreeBSD base, but I > think it would be rejected too, reason: "please submit it upstream to > the OpenSSH people". :-) Incorrect. I have done this myself in the past, and IIRC it's almost trivial. I don't recall why I didn't commit it. > In the particular case that I mentioned, the maintainer > of syscons was in the process of completely restructuring > the code anyway, so any other patches had to wait. Except he didn't really completely restructure it, he just broke it in a different way than it was already broken. I was very disappointed, but I didn't feel that I had sufficient seniority to contradict him, nor sufficient experience to fix it properly. > > > (I don't even think bsdforen.de is the largest German BSD > > > community, but that's a different story). > > Even in case it's the second biggest forum, it shouldn't be ignored; > I agree completely, it shouldn't be ignored. (Whether it's > the first, second or third biggest forum doesn't matter at > all; it can't be easily measured anyway.) BSDForen.de is a native-language forum, and I suspect it suffers from the same problems as other native-language fora: they become closed communities with little or no contact with the parent community, and over time they construct their own mythology of how that community functions and acts. I have seen this before - a complete disconnect between the reality of the project and its perception by a native-language user group, culminating in one case in a face to face "crisis meeting" between members of that community and FreeBSD developers, and in another in a flame war over an "open letter" from that user group to the developers. Interestingly, both cases involved German-language communities. I also dimly recall a similar situation with the Japanese FreeBSD community, which resulted in Warner learning Japanese in an effort to bridge the divide. I was very amused when he started copying some of the idiosyncracies of the Japanese community :) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no