From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jun 15 08:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA14825 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (adrian@for.a.good.time.call.adrian.austnet.org [203.19.28.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14820 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08601; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:34:38 +0800 (WST) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:34:38 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: "Victor A. Sudakov" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP problems. In-Reply-To: <199706141334.VAA04717@vas.tomsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Victor A. Sudakov wrote: > > If they get shitty about it.. stick the RFC in their face and say "read > > and adhere". If they choose not to.. Well theres the problem. It works > > with the majority of their users (ie Windows) so why should they change > > anything? > > > > Sad, isn't it. > > Yes, this is exactly what I am afraid of. The reason of my having started this > thread is that I am trying to understand if ISPs can prevent this from > happening. :) Well, basically in my eyes it boils down to this: * We (ISP's) are out to provide a service to people, and make money. * In order to make money we have to cater for the majority of the market, unless of course the minority want to pay us huge amounts of money :) * The majority of users use a Microsoft-based OS, so the ISP which caters for the Microsoft-based OS, no matter how whacky Microsoft twist TCP/IP, PPP, or whatever into.. will be making the most money. Guess what the business-smart person would do, without thinking "standards" ? It comes down to the fact that we have to keep compatibility to Windows clients. Having to maintain compatibility to them AND the REAL standard can and will become a pain in the arse. Get UNIX into the homes is what I say. Dress it up, make it easy to use, make it pretty, make it do what people want. Once its out there, and its gained some popularity, people WILL start writing more applications for it. If I actually got off my arse and completed my "desktop customisation", my mum could walk up to my FreeBSD/X machine, login with her username/password, be dumped to an X session (which would be running Openlook). There would be icons on the desktop and folders too (yes, people like them :) and one would be "StarWrite 3.0".. she'd double click that, and up would pop swrite3. That in itself is a very nice piece of software (albeit a TAD slow, but hey.. Word 7 is still worse) and when I started it up for her, she sat right down and typed her resume out from scratch. She didn't even ASK me for help :) Problem is.. none of us have any TIME. If someone was going to PAY me to pretty up an X environment, write nice configuration scripts, write that file-manager/icon stuff, I'd do it for sure. But, since the "free unix" is generally powered by people who are doing it in their spare time.. well I'm surprised its gotten as far as it has today. Now Jordan, if this isn't far away from FreeBSD-related talk, I don't know what is :) Seriously though, whats happening with the user-friendly install of FreeBSD? Adrian -- Adrian Chadd | "Unix doesn't stop you from doing | stupid things because that would | stop you from doing clever things"