From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 3 4:24:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6881337BE01 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 3028 invoked by uid 211); 3 May 2000 11:24:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:54:22 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel J. Zaccariello" , John Papalia , Jeremiah Gowdy , smkelly@slashnet.org, insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Attitudes towards newbies (was Re: FreeBSD and IRC) Message-ID: <20000503165421.A2972@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000503155711.A754@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20801.957350993@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20801.957350993@localhost>; from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 03:49:53AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard said on May 3, 2000 at 03:49:53: > > This is most definitely on topic: it concerns early experiences of > > many new users in support, which will affect whether they choose > > to start using the system or not, and whether they will in turn > > advocate it to others. > > I hardly see what IRC, a medium which the FreeBSD project does not > control or endorse in any way, has to do with the question of > "providing support for newbies." I can't figure out whether you're pretending not to understand the issue, or really not understanding it despite the last paragraph of my earlier mail. The issue is not whether IRC should provide support. It is not whether the FreeBSD project should endorse the medium. The issue is that users seem to be having bad experiences there, and you have yourself said it's nothing new, so the project should more clearly dissociate itself from it -- and make it much clearer that it is not advisable to go there -- rather than merely say afterwards "it's none of our business." You have yourself said that this is not a new problem and it keeps happening. Moreover, the *responsible* FreeBSD team members on that channel (and it is clear that there are several) should take care to see that they don't unnecessarily turn people off. Redirect them elsewhere, but do it nicely; kick them only if they refuse to go away on their own. To repeat: many people may think, without intending harm, that #freebsd is a suitable place for tech questions. Many free software projects in fact do seem to have IRC channels for this. So make it clear, on the web page, that this is not the place. "It is a FreeBSD forum...Don't go there for tech support... it is a chat channel first and foremost" only suggests that it may not be helpful, not that it is actively forbidden. And even that statement, weak as it is, would belong better on the support page. But anything leading to bad user experiences, or to negative associations in people's minds with FreeBSD, should be of concern to -advocacy. Sorry for being repetitive but I'm amazed this is not getting across. > Anything else is entirely at your own risk and not really a topic for > advocacy@freebsd.org unless you want to share details of a > particularly successful method for advocating FreeBSD. Want to know the most successful method? Being nice to people. Everything else, even the merits of the system, comes afterwards: nobody enjoys rudeness. > > And why is it buried in the FAQ? > > Nobody has bothered to write any wording for the support section. OK here it is: IRC: While #freebsd channels exist, the FreeBSD project does not control them and does not endorse IRC as a support medium. You may be ignored, insulted or kicked out if you ask questions there. Since these channels are not official, we are not listing them here. If you still want to try them, it is at your own risk. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message