From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 14 21:47:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4837106566B; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:47:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f164.google.com (mail-bw0-f164.google.com [209.85.218.164]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A82F8FC17; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:47:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: by bwz8 with SMTP id 8so2944840bwz.43 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:47:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KYVsaLWK1lvl7/lHXajMNVsbBOCFEwfrhYVH8WbZl98=; b=ZrcxOlonucLrKG4mq1U8dGu06GqrJVBDPHJ0Y5Y0jZTaw8lftc6VPm9k/fDQCdmXEr n3i3iSa7Qs3n37hx45QJxTyCg4b0o0fTgnwGCchNV4TyUxJIAPYdEVLdFowgtu/L/UCQ nGd5/Q90Ol42J996rGXGIWh41hgdeD8zfEWDw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lSwzc22LIIXo2TTymukppouzloU3pXxmcQxpV8RX+YQ5PxP/OL0bztJ3XTGckaWV5H V+kd1QVHNlAo0JGEh9h92s4VY9bfL4VMQNrSLVPzXfuGopFq3xnT5vH6Ok/Nm1/ZV8/t BRPwUzNLUG2+SnoUDSGVqgfgDgvQQCGTZUErc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.103.207 with SMTP id l15mr1592470fao.2.1237067273768; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:47:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090314174509.GA36903@freebsd.org> References: <14763590@bb.ipt.ru> <20090314092610.GA65578@freebsd.org> <3f1fd1ea0903140508sda8af37i83fdb0fb7ee1f792@mail.gmail.com> <20090314174509.GA36903@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:47:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3f1fd1ea0903141447m53e55c52i67b865f5da1831ef@mail.gmail.com> From: Michal Varga To: Roman Divacky Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux 3d applications keep crashing X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:47:56 -0000 On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Roman Divacky wrote: >> > there's an ongoing work on nouveau, so stay tuned :) >> > >> Yes, that will take many years to complete, or at least, produce a >> rotating cube or maybe, maybe run glxgears in around 2012. > > I am currently running accelerated glgears on freebsd using nouveau. > thnx for your enthusiasm :) > While I've been a little sarcastic, yes, there is some preliminary 3D support in nouveau. Still, then you can say that there are fairly good Direct3D accelerated drivers for S3 Virge out there (really, there are). Let's look only on the nouveau front page: Current Status 2D-support is in fairly good shape with EXA acceleration, Xv and Randr12 (think of dual-head, rotations, etc.). Randr12 should work for all cards up to, and including, Geforce 9000 series, although some issues with Geforce 8/9 laptops may still exist, for such issues bug reports should be submitted. Randr12 is now the default. Any 3D functionality that might exist is still unsupported, do not ask for instructions to try it. Also, VT switching while X is running is considered lucky. (yes it's sittinge there for a long time and stuff moved forward a bit in meantime, but, well..) Feature matrix? http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix "4 - While some support for 3D exists, it is far from mature. And even if it was mature, the particular feature you need, be it oddball texture compression formats and whatnot, may not be there. Yet. Patches welcome." Roman, while I appreciate everyone's work on nouveau, be it you, Robert or anyone else, you seriously don't believe to be running Doom 3 or Quake 7.65 on it for yet next few years.. Don't you think? You make it sound like nouveau is "just around the corner" and, I don't know, judging from the immediately following "wow wow wow" reaction, I don't think that's very nice to some of the 'regular' folks around (not trying to make a point with the poster, just thinking generally). Just look at the sad state of oss ATI accelerated drivers (and to avoid being autoattacked by some trigger-happy ATI fanboy, I run both nvidia and ati setups, thank you) and those are out for quite some time, with tons of specs released by AMD/ATI every other month.. Result? (Almost) perfectly running glxgears. Ever tried to run a game with it? Heck, even GL accelerated Duke Nukem 3D for a start? The outcome is so horrible that you want to poke your eyes out with a screwdriver just to get rid of that image (if only one could call that an image - "a message from a black hole" would be probably more appropriate). So don't get me wrong, I'm all in support for nouveau as everyone else, but I still just have that funny feeling when you make it sound like "hey guys, screw the official drivers, they already don't matter at all, nouveau is coming". Yes, nouveau is coming (sort of), it will fill some part of the "market", similiarly as 'nv' does now, but official drivers are not going anywhere, not for years to come and definitely not if you want to go for some gaming (Tuxracer is not a game, seriously), or want to get some other rather serious OpenGL stuff done (and by that I don't mean compiz whooshy windows, though that would -still- be a good start). Anyway - while this reply IS a little bit offtopic (and long, and flamebait, etc.), I just wanted to point out a few things before people start running around waving and screaming "omg did you hear that? they have oss opengl nvidia drivers running in real 3D! jesuschrist I'm going to ... !" And, you know. Like that. Disclaimer: I'm not a nouveau developer, just a long time lurker, here and there. Nothing I said is a fact or anything remotely close to that. m.