From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 22:33:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4161065673 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 22:33:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu (lennier.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B758FC22 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 22:33:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dagger.cc.vt.edu (dagger.cc.vt.edu [198.82.163.114]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q53MWP6q002697; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:32:25 -0400 Received: from auth3.smtp.vt.edu (EHLO auth3.smtp.vt.edu) ([198.82.161.152]) by dagger.cc.vt.edu (MOS 4.3.3-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id VSA00594; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gromit.chumby.lan (c-98-249-9-133.hsd1.va.comcast.net [98.249.9.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth3.smtp.vt.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q53MWOWq010885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:32:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Paul Mather In-Reply-To: <20120602185601.GD2309@isuckatdomains.members.linode.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:32:24 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <11FFF29A-5B2F-45C7-AE79-DCA108B44EED@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> References: <1405746.nVtAo183hi@x220.ovitrap.com> <4FC9FECC.8090703@digsys.bg> <3303845.JjFTmctz7f@x220.ovitrap.com> <4FCA0B5F.5010500@digsys.bg> <4FCA20C5.6010901@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <95D35900-AC63-4948-B54F-40041FFCB232@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <20120602185601.GD2309@isuckatdomains.members.linode.com> To: Chris Nehren X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Mirapoint-Received-SPF: 198.82.161.152 auth3.smtp.vt.edu paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu 5 none X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=dagger.cc.vt.edu X-Junkmail-Signature-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A020206.4FCBE5F9.0043,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0, ip=98.249.9.133, so=2011-07-25 19:15:43, dmn=2011-05-27 18:58:46, mode=single engine X-Junkmail-IWF: false Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 22:33:02 -0000 On Jun 2, 2012, at 2:56 PM, Chris Nehren wrote: > On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 14:11:06 -0400 , Paul Mather wrote: >> I'm not sure what the solution is for the end user. I know I get >> somewhat leery of updating my ports if I see a large number of = changes >> coming via portsnap (like the 4000+ that accompanied the recent = libpng >> upgrade) and there is nothing new in UPDATING (which, happily wasn't >> the case with the libpng upgrade). Usually, I wait a while for the >> dust to clear and an UPDATING entry potentially to appear. >=20 > If you're concerned about things breaking, don't follow the bleeding > edge. This seems to be common sense. Unfortunately, unlike the base operating system, which has -CURRENT, = -STABLE, and -RELEASE, there is no well-defined "bleeding edge" in the = case of ports. (Although there is a strong case to be made that it is = analogous to -CURRENT.) So, as I said above, you have to fall back on = heuristics to determine when it is best to update (with the caveat that = waiting too long to update can also be as troublesome as updating too = quickly). Certainly, it's far from a case of "read UPDATING and you'll = be okay," as someone in this thread was seeming to imply. NetBSD's pkgsrc has a nice feature: the quarterly package branches. = These follow a quarterly release cycle and receive only security = updates. It makes pkgsrc more akin to -CURRENT and -STABLE (or = -RELEASE) instead of just -CURRENT. >> Maybe the solution is to track the freebsd-ports mailing list get get >> advanced warning of large changes, but that would mean following >> another high-volume list. :-( >=20 > And any decent mailer setup can filter those messages for you, leaving > only the messages relevant to ports you're interested in. There are = also > systems like gmane which provide an NNTP feed for mailing lists. > Combined with a newsreader with good killfile / scoring features, it > shouldn't be hard to keep up. Probably not, but then again you're still relying on it breaking for = someone else (and thereby being reported) to avoid it breaking for you. = :-) I'm not saying these are insurmountable problems, and, in my experience, = most of the time ports updates go smoothly. But, it can present more of = a challenge for those that are running an individual FreeBSD system (as = their desktop/laptop system, say), and especially if they are using = non-default port options in the ports they install, as these don't get = the benefit of widespread testing. Cheers, Paul.