From owner-freebsd-questions Sun Oct 7 14:51:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from dv-db.com (dv-db.com [207.159.141.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F8537B405 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mark2 (usr257-bh2.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.233.13]) by dv-db.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14751; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:51:38 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-ID: <00b201c14f7b$cd26d350$0100a8c0@mark2> From: "mark / badger?" To: , "freebsd-questions" , , "Bern, Davis" , "Kerr, Greg" , "Duke, M.L." , "Choudhury, Raj" References: <200110072004.UAA01391@groggy.anc.acsalaska.net> Subject: Re: questions list Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:02:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > (to reply to this mail, i had to pick it up, re-mail it > > to my ISP, telnet into my ISP, open my mail there, > > re-edit the email, and then re-mail it again. > > bleargh!) Why not just use your ISPs mail server for all your mail as everyone else on dial up or behind a NAT does? As far as I know there are not many reasons to use a mail server in either of your situations you described before (on a dial up or behind a NAT out of public namespace). I think I'm right in saying mailservers should be constantly reachable in public and at the same IP/hostname, and in either of those situations this is not the case. Why do you choose not to use the ISPs mail server? (genuinely interested to know what benefits there are to running your server locally when you're on dialup/behind a NAT, other than the ability to spam with more impunity) > > and regarding the last point, it is primarily > > a user responsibility to filter mail, thinking > > along practical lines of rights and freedoms. > > since when is it a "server" responsibility??? Er....we're not talking about peoples personal email accounts here - if we were then you'd have a perfectly good point - we're talking about a mailing list with a specific topic and I for one am VERY happy that the spam-every-three-minutes does not make it onto the list. > > i would strongly suggest that it is a users > > right and responsibility to read or delete > > their emails as they deem necessary, not > > and ISP/server responsibility to do it for him/her. Indeed, and if my ISP started scanning emails in my email account in this way, without my request, I would be justifiably very annoyed. However if I signed up for a mailing list and 80% of the traffic on it was spam, I'd just unsubscribe. The list would become unusable. I don't have much of a problem with spam on most of my email addresses, so haven't bothered to set up filtering to automatically remove it. You're suggesting that if I want to be a member of freebsd-questions I should HAVE to run anti-spam filtering myself because it's *immoral* for the list owner to do it?? Absolutely ridiculous, I'm afraid. > > why does everyone seem to appear to depend on authority > > to protect their rights and freedoms in exchange > > for maintaining them and protecting them for themselves? > > it should be well established at this time in history that > > the protection and maintenance of rights and freedoms is > > an individual personal responsibilty, and when we rely on > > authority for that purpose - we end up with no rights and > > no freedoms, and everything is a big kludge. What on earth are you talking about? The right of spammers to spam the list? The freedom for us to receive spam if we so choose? Excuse me but I personally think that that is the most stupid, selfish argument I've ever heard for reducing the controls on the list. You aren't a spammer yourself are you, because you really are sounding like one....running a mail server on a dial up account? running a mail server incorrectly set up without reverse DNS? We're not talking about the right to peaceful protest, or the freedom of the press here, we're talking about a mailing list, and it is the owner of the lists perogative (if not duty) to ensure that reasonable efforts are made to keep the list in order, which to my mind without ANY shread of doubt includes filtering out any spam or would-be spam, even if that DOES mean filtering out the very few people who insist on using their own, badly set up, mail servers when there really is no good reason to do so. > > if you don't like junk email, why not delete it yourself (manually > > or via personal filter) - and keep things free from authority and kludges? > > we should all know that when we ask authority to maintain our > > freedoms and rights we end up with no rights and no freedoms. I cannot believe how angry reading this is making me...I'm absolutely fuming and for no good reason either. You are talking the most absolute trash I've ever heard on this list - what exact rights and freedoms are impinged by not being able to post to this list anyway?? a minor inconvienience which can be got around SO easily it's not even worth mentioning - it's hardly the burning of books or censorship of the press is it? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez. Get some perspective on things before getting all Orwellian. Mark (just a littttle bit pissed off, as you may have noticed :+) ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message