From nobody Mon Sep 9 21:11:40 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X2ff61P6bz5V3qp for ; Mon, 09 Sep 2024 21:11:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X2ff60y9Lz4q0j for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:11:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1725916302; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=rABvhXLxy0CMyAiws1Y3gzm4F7aHmGb2JTTUQ49D4aM=; b=s1S5QNzxbCvZSdiAQAg2y+gdILIsqmJaZfRqn0AI3lWsKtHmpBe7rRoM/zsACcNXX58ujb FV4KqBaAy+R14+SwSon/z/B/n5jeUfu9B6GR4ZDM/XneSGLVwu6pbRgZIBut7ZNnh8NWNr MXeCnj07bVio62yjCv0HvWpE1YxNtBgRFpUJI5KoSPmjisTsv2MK7gM92+Ic2yPdAQRTUh UYhFgNmcTyM2KUq2gKRiS0Bxwk7ZIIIUfsQiEGzONuOb1MP50o+no/If41LNRlOpxCK0Ds OHahIFiUupi7m8HxDKdAhq5fpkMoG23famzXUIgIlLbWv54vkuOl70YqNcAzhA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1725916302; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kp+8dvWv04+Kyy0M2DfUZ7T3TQoeUJjm4u42/KcxPVtEW8qQM/uTkwQL6Pl0g4gLnDgfH+ J0EzLtNvHiuf0EtybNtkcsmWY3ptHwt96795QbV5z5jVWdex1K0ebb0QLjBjSqstE8AAG1 qhDEp6GGXXgOu6bZSCPpAhuoBZaE4ne0i13kp/KgV+cWYIur2UJzxYS7rkXSpvrhpLs+ed 6fR81F2Z5e63pvmymm8FF/zNfeOofKFqfqf6vRMdnI5Snrrch7cHvG9x6UoQf5B0fLSuQc gFJZ9ZQoVga/i634ApJlaagntC8VAePL5TIQYcL1QC6GXnVzOUm6GW4Kwo4wtg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1725916302; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=rABvhXLxy0CMyAiws1Y3gzm4F7aHmGb2JTTUQ49D4aM=; b=PWP3XotGg0RwID4d3nw3uNR2rvTPIE60YJGMb9e50RWoKpwqyX0eu2UTM8ZY8eVNET3G+R 4GwQwk4YbtHdELeVWLBHaWOESNzqloYTI+I8rNBtwkgW7HE4VUPf5PMra6PhaFrDffovAf SHPs8T1Dp0kROU819DtTzyG5TKNlB7EtCf8VPxTM6F7vihnxKFBnNX9azhAqOm+DPgYKB6 bFTpS4nFV6n+Yu86vehNrF7D8EVtutlkaO1M1GsrH7kWj5T8nZFdQN+31L5Frz4etjnF1/ FCpR3tYgN8a1EczwVQxVGRA/jFHLTtTzucYr1vdQCehnTUK7jt/iQL5dnfJ93Q== Received: from [10.9.4.95] (unknown [209.182.120.176]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: kevans/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4X2ff56YsMz1LPm for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:11:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <49239d9a-aece-4b6b-b896-d7b4899149fc@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 16:11:40 -0500 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Kyle Evans In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9/5/24 13:09, Alan Somers wrote: > By now I expect that most of you have seen the long list of new > security advisories that just came out. Strikingly, all were the > result of memory handling errors. And none of them wouldn't have > happened if their respective programs had been written in a > memory-safe language. > > In fact, of all the C bug fixes that I've been involved with (as > either author or reviewer) since May, about three quarters could've > been avoided just by using a better language. > > The real takeaway here is that C is no longer sufficient for writing > high quality code in the 2020s. Everyone needs to adapt their tools. > Programmers who don't will increasingly come to resemble experimental > archaeologists, i.e. people who learn flintknapping to "keep the > knowledge alive". Such people are valuable, but definitely niche. I > for one don't want my career to go in that trajectory. > > To summarize, here's the list of this week's security advisories, and > also some other recent C bug fixes of my own involvement: > [... snip ...] If even half of the energy that has gone into these threads would've been spent on a proof-of-concept rust-xtoolchain implementation with some motivating cases instead, we'd be in a lot better place to actually have these conversations. Thanks, Kyle Evans