Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 15:11:21 CDT From: "Paul Coyne" <coyne@br-inc.com> To: <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: Re: Disgruntled Linux User... questions about FreeBSD Message-ID: <vines.FJJ8%2BbbaepB@ftw9vnssvr.moinet.com>
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Dear disgruntled user...
Based on current reliability of FreeBSD 2.2.x chain of releases, I am measuring uptime by YEARS, not months or days with reboots only required for corporate power downs or hardware changes... Kinda like a Timex watch... I think you will find it extremely solid, so long as your hardware is on the compatibility list. I run it on Compaq Deskpro 6000's as well as other generic machines, and the only problems I have encountered are due to hardware misconfiguration, not FreeBSD messing up. And if you aren't on a public network (and thereby not as concerned about security fixes) the 2.2.x-RELEASE versions work great... I would agree that it is easier to install than RedHat, but (and no offense anyone) the menuing system can be quirky.
Kudos the the FreeBSD team..
Paul Coyne
coyne@br-inc.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: "Wes Peters" <wes@softweyr.com>
Subject: Re: Disgruntled Linux User... questions about FreeBSD
Date: 07/13/98ÿ14:15
Jeremy Domingue recently bemoaned:
> I started using Linux (RedHat) a year ago. At first, I had a lot of problems
> but I assumed that was simply because I was very unexperienced and had to go
> through the normal learning curve that everyone does. About 8 months ago, I
> got myself a brand new Gateway (ALR) Pentium II 266 server, and needless to
> say I was completely excited. I thought that with this new hardware linux
> was going to completely ROCK and fix some of the problems I was having with
> my previous (clone) server. Obviously, since I am here now, it did not.
>
> Ever since I first installed Linux a year ago I have been going back and
> forth from bug to bug, problem to problem, in a never ending battle of
> trying to get my server to stay up any more than a week. I have been told
> everything from "your hardware is bad" to "wait for the next version" to
> "that's not supported" to "there are bugs in that code and someone needs to
> fix it". Frankly, I am SICK of hearing this again and again! If I had some
> piece of crap clone hardware, I could probably understand some of the issues
> I have been having, but this is name brand (what I thought to be) quality
> hardware! I have replaced almost every piece of hardware in that server
> under the assumption it was bad and it has not helped one bit.
You've expanded your mind enough to encompass Linux, and now FreeBSD,
so hopefully you'll understand the follwoing as well: NAME BRAND
does not mean QUALITY. The number of users on the FreeBSD lists
over the years who have blamed various stupid prolblems on FreeBSD
because they spent mega-$$$ on Gateway, Dell, Compaq, IBM, etc.,
systems is astonishing. My "piece of crap clone" 486 system has
run each successive FreeBSD release since 2.0.5 since it was new,
and generally is rebooted only to upgrade to a new kernel, or to
insert or remove hardware. typical uptimes between reboots is
about 2 months; I try ti keep this system relabitvely -STABLE,
since it's my front door. ;^)
Gateway is pretty well known for selling "the box of rocks du jour."
If you order two identical systems from them, and don't specify
every piece of hardware by name, you're likely to get two different
video cards, two different hard drives, etc. It just depends on
what is in the "bargain" parts bin when they assemble YOUR computer
that day.
> When I started out with my new Gateway server, it was just a plain Pentium
> II 266 w/ 128mb of RAM. After googles of crashes, I thought, well, maybe it
> just isn't enough server for the load. So, I proceeded to get a second PII
> processor and upgraded to 512mb of RAM. More crashes, different errors, the
> story of my life with Linux. I have tried the latest release and development
> kernels, just about every patch I can find, and nothing works with it. It is
> the most unstable computer I have ever used in my entrie life... and I run
> an NT box as well (pretty sad the NT box stays up for months on end and I
> can't even keep the linux box running a week).
>
> So, at this point, I am looking for a fresh start, something that will allow
> the server to actually run a week or more without crashing.
>
> Finally, to my questions about FreeBSD:
>
> 1) First and foremost, I am wondering what issues I will face being a user
> very accustomed to linux. I know there will be differences between linux and
> FreeBSD, but can anyone outline some of the major ones?
The configuration and installation is drastically different. I
find FreeBSD easier to install, but it won't work with quite the
range of hardware Linux will. Your hardware listed below looks
pretty plain; I don't see anything off the top of my head that sets
off alarm bells. There have been some comments lately about recent
new releases of Adpatec controllers, but I think they mostly pertain
to 7895 (?) controllers, rather than 7880.
> 2) Is there a way I can install FreeBSD without losing all of the stuff on
> the server right now such as user files, web pages, programs, etc? And
> possibly keep linux on there somewhere in case I ever decide to go back?
You can certainly leave Linux on a partition on your hard disk,
and install FreeBSD on another disk or partition. The user files,
etc., could be transferred to tape, disk, or another machine and
brought back over using tar, cpio, dump/restore, etc.
You'll find that many of the server applications are common to
FreeBSD and Linux, i.e. Apache, wu-ftpd, etc. Some (or all) of
your configuration *MAY* port straight over. Some parts that depend
on filesystem paths may not port all that well.
> 3) Is anyone using SMP on FreeBSD with an Adaptec 7880 on-board SCSI
> controller? Linux people keep telling me that this is not a good
> configuration for Linux... how about for FreeBSD?
You won't find a discussion of SMP on the -current list, because SMP
isn't in the -current release. You'll have to ask questions of this
nature in the freebsd-current mailing list.
> 4) I know that the current build of FreeBSD is listed as development and
> should not be used in a mission critical environment, however, what are
> people's experiences with it so far? If it seems to be fairly stable, I
> would be willing to give it a shot... I really need the SMP support.
If you're really interested in stability, use -STABLE, or the latest
-RELEASE. If you really need SMP support, find a recent -CURRENT
snapshot that is know to work pretty well and gamble on that. We
don't have a -STABLE SMP yet, but the 3.0 release is screaming up on us.
I'm waiting with baited breath, but I'm going to wait. For what I use
FreeBSD, -STABLE is the best choice at any point.
> 5) Are there any other problems or issues I may face with my hardware
> configuration (listed below)?
>
> I would also be very interested in hearing from other previous (or current)
> Linux users' experiences with FreeBSD, and what comments they may have about
> the differences and advantages (especially stability-wise) to using FreeBSD
> instead of Linux.
I use OpenLinux 1.2 and RedHat 5.0 on Trashiba Equium desktops a
bit, but mostly only for network testing. We have an IBM tokenring
card in the RedHat box, so we can generate BIG packets with DF (IP
don't fragment option) set. ;^)
Both seem stable for the undemanding uses we put them to, but I
certainly wouldn't want one of them on MY desk, which is inhabited
by a SPARC-5 running Slowlaris and yet another Trashiba Equium
running FreeBSD 2.2.6. At least it has a Pro/100 on board. ;^)
> Hardware Configuration:
>
> Gateway (formerly ALR) NS-7000 Server
Motherboard? Chipset?
> Dual PII 266mhz
> 512mb EDO ECC SDRAM (all from the same lot, same manufacturer)
> Adaptec 7880 on-board SCSI controller
> 3Com 10/100 Ethernet Card
You may not find the best performance with a 3com card. The Intel
EtherExpress Pro 100 (currenlty B or + models) is the favorite,
with stellar throughput and easy configurability. You may want to
acquire one. FreeBSD users have reported finding them in the
mid-$40 range (in the continental USA).
> 2-4.1gb IBM SCSI hard drives
I haven't seen any bitching about the IBM drives lately, so they're
either working well or not very popular. I seem to recall several
people mentioning them late last year, so maybe they're working
well?
The best way to find if FreeBSD works on your hardware is to try
it. Find some spare disk space, or another drive, throw FreeBSD
on it, and beat on it for a week. If it looks good, transfer over
the Linux files and be done with it.
Good luck.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com
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