Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:42:55 -0400 From: Chris <kingsqueak@home.com> To: FreeBSD Bob <fbsdbob@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Cc: Chris Wasser <cwasser@v-wave.com>, J McKitrick <jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah right Message-ID: <19991030034255.A4026@CC737825-A.etntwn1.nj.home.com> In-Reply-To: <199910292138.RAA18814@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> References: <008701bf2241$947e7f80$271a6c18@vwave.com> <199910292138.RAA18814@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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My .02 is this;
I simply don't follow the need for dummed down releases or distros. In
a nutshell, overly friendly installation GUI's and configurators have a
major flaw; they allow a user to activate a service without having the
necessary understanding of how it fully works.
I do understand the need for positive press, however 9/10 of the suggestions
for these handholding installers evolve from the inability to install a web
server, ftp, or mail server by reading what really is some very thorough
documentation.
The average Win user can't handle something as simple as a single
mouseclick to disable Wingates, to enable the same group to install what
amounts to a powerful network server platform is just foolishness. A user
that in the end will be a competent *nix operator will need nothing but
thorough documentation as a guide. I maintain that the countless hours of
coding/troubleshooting for install interfaces could much better be applied
to proofreading the documentation that exists and revising it to the n-th
degree. A user with a real need for the operating system will then have all
the proper tools at their disposal, and those that don't want to bother well
hell they'll hire the rest of us eh? Nothing ever stops at the install,
hide the details and troubleshooting turns into hmm seven MCSE's staying up
all night I suppose ;-).
---signal-degradation---noise-increase-starts-here
I just put FreeBSD on my system last week after over three years of nothing
but the penguin here. I found the installation nothing but intuitive,
almost too much so as I hurried and shot myself in the foot more than once
already ;-). I got The Complete FreeBSD in the mail a few days later, a few
hours of reading and there are now very few details of the basic needs that
I haven't covered.
I am LOVING the fact that there is far more for me to do manually to get my
install personally adjusted, I was sorely out of practice and from running
distros that so slickly package and cover things such as env variables etc.
I was purely lazy. This installation is well earned and I will have a far
better understanding of what is going on as a result. I am looking for my
first junior level admin position, and if I hadn't run into FreeBSD first I
would have fallen on my face in short order. As for ease of use, well my
wife cannot tell the diff between running wmaker in this or the other OS, I
have the drive to do the configuration, she's purely a desktop end user.
Why should there be a release packaged so slickly that my wife could install
it? All that would result would be all the questions about maintainence and
customization as a direct result of infamiliariazation with the core of the
OS. If a release ever evolves that is that dumbed down I can only hope it
is a crippled non-server capable version strictly meant as a net appliance.
On Fri, Oct 29, 1999 at 05:38:03PM -0400, FreeBSD Bob wrote:
> > > I agree. A simple easy-tryout version of FBSD would be nice.
> >
> > Frankly,
> > --cut--
> >
> > I've said it a hundred times, Microsoft and Windows have turned the
> > usually intelligent end-user into a brainless double-clicking fool.
>
> Generally, agreed. But, that still does not really negate the case
> for having a training wheels release, to help folks along. It could
> be tailored as a no-brainer where it steps you through installation,
> and setup, and general mundane tasks like adding users, shutdown,
> setting up mail, practicing a telnet/ftp session, etc. It is hard
> to train a newbie if they can't even get a basic working machine up
> for whatever reason. It would make a good case for having a basic
> system up in a ``dos/windoz/whatever'' emulator, for safety's sake.
> One could use the dos pdp-11 emulator running V7, or one could use
> minix, or one could use whatever. But, it might make more sense
> to run a ``mini-FreeBSD'' that way, and be good PR for the crew.
> That is probably thinking out too loud, but it is a reasonable
> possibility and approach. Whether or not it comes to pass, who knows.
______snip_____
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