Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 16:46:35 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn <gljennjohn@gmail.com> To: Tommi Pernila <tommi.pernila@gmail.com> Cc: Tijl Coosemans <tijl@freebsd.org>, freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vote: making wayland=on default (also posted to ports@) Message-ID: <20171221164635.7a348ad0@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: <CABHD1wQfD5pAsr-u=a2BgrRcYW4y%2BcvvnW2Bp1tmL-d5%2BQZsJA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAECmPwsN15WxSuXynto=RxTyztQdUjU5vaR6Y%2BCEkqDNW3_5Rg@mail.gmail.com> <20171220132717.0eb5777d@ernst.home> <CAECmPwsBTaM=hTt46r7h7ZvWEtpqDRe-MKWxQFAAR6jd%2BYkpMw@mail.gmail.com> <20171220180106.0224107c@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> <0cadf450-ce6b-f9bc-bdbd-99f89c4dec6f@unrelenting.technology> <20171221113800.4b3acf10@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> <CABHD1wQfD5pAsr-u=a2BgrRcYW4y%2BcvvnW2Bp1tmL-d5%2BQZsJA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:03:02 +0200 Tommi Pernila <tommi.pernila@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Tijl Coosemans <tijl@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:55:06 +0300 Greg V <greg@unrelenting.technology> > > wrote: > > > On 12/20/2017 20:01, Tijl Coosemans wrote: > > >> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:53:20 +0000 Johannes Lundberg < > > johalun0@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> Can you guarantee this? I seem to have mesa-libs stuff installed > > >>>> even though I use the nvidia-driver. May be that pkg just > > >>>> installed mesa-libs as a dependency for some other package. > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm using the AMD Ryzen which has no on-board graphics, so I'm > > >>>> happily using my NVIDIA GPU and have absolutely no desire to > > >>>> change because someone enables wayland by default. > > >>> x11-toolkits/gtk30 will get some added dependencies: > > >>> libwayland-client.so:graphics/wayland \ > > >>> libwayland-egl.so:graphics/mesa-libs \ > > >>> libxkbcommon.so:x11/libxkbcommon > > >>> > > >>> Is this a problem for Nvidia users? > > >> The older nvidia drivers don't have libEGL, but if libwayland-egl.so > > >> isn't actually used at runtime it's probably ok. > > > It's not used when you're on X11, because X11 is not Wayland :) > > > > But is libEGL loaded into memory? > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Hi, > > Nvidia and Wayland is an issue currently. > > TL:DR; > 1. > Pure Wayland application with the binary Nvidia drivers do work, > Currently normal desktop usage is quite limited. > E.g. Browsers do not work correctly, > X-applications do not work with XWayland on Nvidia's drivers > 2. > Nouveau driver isn't currently supported in FreeBSD. > > and here is the looong version > > 1. > X-applications do not work with xWayland. > > Why? > It is because XWayland uses GBM and it does not have support for Nvidia___s > proprietary driver. > All opensource drivers are supporting GBM. > > GBM (Generic Buffer Management) is an API which provides a mechanism > for allocating buffers for graphics rendering tied to Mesa. > > How did we get here? > > Nvidia first wanted to do an easy solution from their point-of-view > and have everyone (meaning all window managers) write in support for the > EGL streams. > https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017- > January/032722.html > > Most developers were not really excited on this proposal. > KDE developer: > https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2017/10/ > plasmawayland-and-nvidia-2017-edition/ > > Sway developer: > https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html > > Nvidia then publicly apologize for the EGL stream proposal > and also proposed a better way of solving the problem > https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2017-November/177632.html > > Name for the new project initially was "Device Memory Allocator Project" > Nvidia's newer tentative name is *Generic Device Memory Allocator* > and *liballoc* as the allocator library name. > > The project has some prototype code in Github, but it hasn't seen much > activity. > https://github.com/cubanismo/allocator > I'm hoping something will eventually come out from this not-so-ideal > situation. > > > 2. > Only way to get Nvidia hardware running Wayland is currently with the > Nouveau open source drivers. > Nouveau drivers do not have a working port in FreeBSD, > this was dropped from the ports tree in 2014 with this commit message: > > 2014-01-31 x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau: Not supported, missing kernel > support. use the nvidia driver > > > Wayland can fully work on FreeBSD with Nvidia hardware when: > > A/ > Nouveau driver works on FreeBSD. > I have no idea how difficult it would be to report Nouveau back to FreeBSD? > > or > > B/ > Nvidia has their new Generic Device Memory Allocator project in a working > state. > This might take a long time, a year or two? > Well, as long as reason reigns and X11 uncontaminated by Wayland remains in ports or as a pkg, there shouldn't be a problem. If the eventual goal is to eliminate pure X11 and only offer the crap being put into the Linux kernel, then there will be lots of unhappy campers. Not all the world wants to use Intel or AMD graphics. -- Gary Jennejohn
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