From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 21 02:05:46 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3746F2B0; Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:05:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBF8FD1F; Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1L25PAu003181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id t1L25PMO003178; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: default pager (csh) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <54E5232F.3060409@delphij.net> <54E59BF7.40207@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: Davide Italiano , FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current , Xin LI X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:05:46 -0000 On Thu, 19 Feb 2015, Kevin Oberman wrote: > On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Warren Block wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2015, Julian Elischer wrote: > > On 2/18/15 3:41 PM, Xin Li wrote: > > The _only_ reason that I can think of is that more(1) does not clear > screen for certain terminals (done with 'ti' and 'te' sequences), > while less(1) when running as less does. > > The less(1) behavior can be annoying to some people (sometimes even > myself when using less to show contents of a file and ^Z to paste > them), and unfortunately quite a few of them also happen to be the > more vocal ones when it comes to a change. > > > I find that behaviour infuriating > > I page down to a place to get some text on the screen to use as  a reference, then exit to run a command with that information, and *bam* the info I wanted to > use has gone away. > > > It doesn't do that on csh.  Or maybe I figured out how to prevent it long ago and forgot, but all I use is this: > > setenv  PAGER   "less -RS" > > > You probably did what I used to do. Modify the termcaps/terminfo to eliminate this behavior. See Exorcising the Evil Alternate Screen. > > In the past, FreeBSD disabled this by default. It was changed several years ago, but you can change it back as per the aboved referenced article. I'm pretty sure I have not done that, it would show up in mergemaster. As far as I can remember, less(1) has never done that clear-the-screen thing on FreeBSD, which is why it is so jarring on Linux. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 21 02:31:31 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4230713; Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anubis.delphij.net (anubis.delphij.net [64.62.153.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "anubis.delphij.net", Issuer "StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B375AF69; Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zeta.ixsystems.com (unknown [12.229.62.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by anubis.delphij.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B0D22411E; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:31:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=delphij.net; s=anubis; t=1424485885; x=1424500285; bh=bwxCaVFUdBNNGDpLFQFiwuwbSCP1IP9moqXS7N7BAQ8=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=v1Ss0TyR4SwoWXzFn6fW04Sfy7h+8/iD7Km1/fEuDXgm1626mAYQ7vk6aNCG1DpQu Q2VDENZtOI+euIEVnr7XD+wug2XqK65sHapSiAqtO9KtDkFq7lFisk2hmq2qaqK1h3 04LT/2mCdmxIcsADV5rWzCOtq7i6kme7lqzjhs6M= Message-ID: <54E7EDFC.70008@delphij.net> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:31:24 -0800 From: Xin Li Reply-To: d@delphij.net Organization: The FreeBSD Project MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Block , Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: default pager (csh) References: <54E5232F.3060409@delphij.net> <54E59BF7.40207@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Davide Italiano , FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current , Xin LI X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:31:31 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 02/20/15 18:05, Warren Block wrote: >> It doesn't do that on csh. Or maybe I figured out how to prevent >> it long ago and forgot, but all I use is this: >> >> setenv PAGER "less -RS" >> >> >> You probably did what I used to do. Modify the termcaps/terminfo >> to eliminate this behavior. See Exorcising the Evil Alternate >> Screen. >> >> In the past, FreeBSD disabled this by default. It was changed >> several years ago, but you can change it back as per the aboved >> referenced article. > > I'm pretty sure I have not done that, it would show up in > mergemaster. As far as I can remember, less(1) has never done that > clear-the-screen thing on FreeBSD, which is why it is so jarring on > Linux. Not all terminals will clear screen... Cheers, - -- Xin LI https://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.1.2 (FreeBSD) iQIbBAEBCgAGBQJU5+32AAoJEJW2GBstM+nsZFQP+IoALzoaMRYF+jB9L1kwY+QN h3mnx6BCjv24nMfnv/wLDvWXQ5N1DY0Di9/RP0YSFxgWetpxQGIf0fDOE2jYAbSW +xPBMnYfkKWmzenF5W9NxMPi4o6ul/+LIkp1PxGpxHqjktkSFu3lnoeZaI0JB+6U 3XgpyLMsCfKPP1s5jOyn7TcIKQkby69ANUHWN+7Vfcrg7wy7h0cLmEuCfqOjMg0O CczASshTkCH3JjdwENmT5hwxIKRRqLeqKLvGSyphcZ8FiOl8TKfY+Rnd7wxc9/Cf /PU4cJFVIYw4v60hknD+Dj3hdgwJYA5pfJY2+8faC5V0qKpsDCnl43xDzKXojJjE QX74k7fS47bwcAzTZMLD55X95mos6k7pkDdSE+FoEyWld+yCKxxnSGEXE+728xX2 zdpj1OlJLhyijcZXPNYbDmUVbGzjBnWSTcRF73+upeGDtG3Q1cKaCD7ZBx+Eyqq8 r0ILRrINPzW58XzK0i33obT4SqyBKnadCRuSADpKEaEZgjQeDEGhlQ83SBIt2xBr rqofewSf3jPoN/o03vNaVMRfOT36NT65DOoCjIf0TuEpKbRhfYXb5LVAmt13Bhpv Uc29/3uOi0r2A1h+2URZ0M5LBJo2NiaNgGRE+TTw4y/+mUwhbMvdOVuRwvYwGatb 2lI/u9fCHmNkyPWf5J8= =+90O -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----