From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 25 17:37:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC1A106564A; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:37:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D578FC0C; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywf7 with SMTP id 7so2882530ywf.13 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:37:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jjzyNr1q73UKu9logqiqGKSfbLwOHP1YeQHUiJWIPHQ=; b=b5jcOar8Rt/SiGctOKvVYboIigMsjGaZZwKwV7Zqd5/i+ShkO188phjTVdqNUWIIUA UlsQGZEWRbL/TzW1iaQQDYuP01lDe/B6TYldnADPtGD9+ci0mEbhyyuPW/2xnWo9uqpY q7nyApV8PTKvnXPrEnNz0th9W0JzJU8sRm0Bg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.249.31 with SMTP id w31mr4700958agh.202.1311615420162; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.209.12 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:36:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E2D125F.6040909@cran.org.uk> References: <20110724162937.33865zm0kn4ztdwk@econet.encontacto.net> <4E2C8FBE.7040003@freebsd.org> <4E2CA4A7.7020100@fuzzwad.org> <4E2D125F.6040909@cran.org.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:36:59 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Bruce Cran Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-current , Ron McDowell , Nathan Whitehorn , eculp Subject: Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:37:01 -0000 On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Bruce Cran wrote: > On 25/07/2011 06:01, Freddie Cash wrote: > >> Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a >> Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made >> a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. >> Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install >> configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer >> should do just that: install the os and nothing else. >> > > I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD using it > as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until they > understand where all the various configuration files are and how they work. > Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the YaST > tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using SuSE if > it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better installers > I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. > The difference is that YaST was designed from the get-go to be both a system management tool and a software installation tool and a system installation tool. Sysinstall was not, and sysinstall used as a post-install management tool the past couple of years has caused more issues for newbies than it's "solved". If nothing else happened to sysinstall but all the post-install crud was removed from it, it would be improved a thousand-fold. Since no one has stepped up to fix the issues with the post-install management facets of sysinstall, it's only natural to remove those bits. And, since no one wants to create a new TUI management tool, there's no reason to burden the bsdinstall devs with it. Let's make an installation tool. Later, we can worry about a TUI management tool, if it's really needed. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com