From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Aug 29 14:42:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F49ED78E4 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:42:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2m.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2m.ore.mailhop.org [54.149.155.156]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46K51L0dTFz3GCK for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:42:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1567089748; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=a/iixmRyANIz2XYKkMo+f6254i6U+Dj868uVtSpXjInXC50OteB6mcgXHseF4aKxlx59DaSO/LxHI WFlOWcyQVh3gQwBmVxoRllA0F8GdpXXZp3fPgWR09cBZjwYLGlMbJ3GqUypmRrToZSp0oGZomy82LA sAemnjbRJfsWI+Lpl0ADj1omv9lR28DiX9dYCaF+zOG4I0vZ0jkHwkApYXjwx2PBvxPhG/Ym4VsP3x lD/tynr3MChPNKUnT5NClfH5fq8mMvYGvDLvjCeUVF8/RUWDFeD0p09AAj1nRVHTNKEeXfeTqgzxEe EKa0MyJeLFJo17p7K8N9l6C0bu4e+7w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=q0A5Af+FjYXzUKhHiX5T2y2vMEbwVSRnnMr5Zyj6Azc=; b=hgA0dvajySNQtFfXVtA3Y5N0iCTIJg+xGYAUYP7lpYNaDDdc5wW+rngfoMGY22zq0ZgNS3AGRv7xW xJE2CgvvbH9jm8J5iMRPFGE6TuUybtdVY2s5JWFaNUz+HvNtRosdmMWqcvT8xGD/xKMT3Dv+RACH3+ F9hVo+xUMvBpTQQm7OXVQB3kUpeUkIO36vilvo9RZDuQnsGVM9b3SDgdoF/rKXsLe6MWD3bBg+KcxA 2xkouo6xC/FUrkWaKgrdM2747hIPN/nqnKpwxg0eYUJ4ZriUik+UyqlenjqyvMt3S43HXUa1iNbvHe wNd9u9er+dBiEWL7gmpTsKOx1vcwjqw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=q0A5Af+FjYXzUKhHiX5T2y2vMEbwVSRnnMr5Zyj6Azc=; b=aQKiD4SUotZnnBulgPsFnO8j2mZHNV946DsBaHL7Fbvhzw4aaGrwPlkECSX2kYKd/nhC2Vmb5wDBu u55DpxWn+kAamJV9FoH1Wnp3D/TTcQmtNM4yoJbqb171jcS7EDKobQQU/SPBrzQAO48/yaY3WowBZR SzD9B9VKG+knKCLkZ2nmMAG8OS3GLVe0Xpot4P0c3W7te8XsLaxkOpJsn0zf3ATFuweU51qPVUXyNP 9Rg0Epo/Ra4WTrvWMVHX6VLoy/vpu4KTcdvVlCW3aI9b88AroL/pzn2Lx/lBc4mmDpfuQVpNQaMY8P +txhFAbszz3GsQlfhhoQYo6f5LPQNQA== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 3795f44d-ca6b-11e9-85ed-13b9aae3a1d2 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 3795f44d-ca6b-11e9-85ed-13b9aae3a1d2; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:42:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x7TEgP25017390; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <28934eb780342605090bf365ac3a2e0d522256f5.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP 20190401-ci_policy: CI policy From: Ian Lepore To: Konstantin Belousov , Li-Wen Hsu Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , fcp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:42:25 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20190829114057.GZ71821@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20190829114057.GZ71821@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46K51L0dTFz3GCK X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.148.0.0/15, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:42:30 -0000 On Thu, 2019-08-29 at 14:40 +0300, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:29:58PM +0800, Li-Wen Hsu wrote: > > It seems I was doing wrong that just changed the content of this FCP > > to "feedback", but did not send to the right mailing lists. > > > > So I would like to make an announcement that the FCP > > 20190401-ci_policy "CI policy": > > > > https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-20190401-ci_policy.md > > > > is officially in "feedback" state to hopefully receive more comments > > and suggestions, then we can move on for the next FCP state. > > What problem does the document tries to solve ? Or rather, do we really > have the problem that it claims to solve ? > > From my experience, normal peer pressure is enough to get things fixed > quickly when it is possible to fix them quickly. If there is something > more non-trivial, esp. in the tests and not the build, I am sure that > a rule allowing anybody to do blind revert is much more harmful than > having a test broken. > > More, I know that tests are of very low quality, which means that > brokeness of the tests is not an indicator of anything until root cause > is identified. > > Can we rely on the common sense of developers until there is indeed the > visible problem ? > I totally agree. This is an overly-bureaucratic solution in search of a problem. If this needs to be addressed at all (and I'm not sure it does), then another sentence or two in bullet item 10 in section 18.1 [*] of the committer's guide should be enough. And even then it needn't be overly-formal and should just mention that if a commit does break the build the committer is expected to be responsive to that problem and the commit might get reverted if they're unresponsive. I don't think we need schedules. (And I don't think breaking a test counts as breaking the build.) [*] https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committers-guide/rules.html -- Ian