From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 14 20:59:21 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EAE4C17; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6332D67; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r2d2 ([82.69.141.170]) by mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) (MDaemon PRO v10.0.4) with ESMTP id md50006720458.msg; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:16 +0000 X-Spam-Processed: mail1.multiplay.co.uk, Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:16 +0000 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDDKIM-Result: neutral (mail1.multiplay.co.uk) X-MDRemoteIP: 82.69.141.170 X-Return-Path: prvs=10308a6844=killing@multiplay.co.uk X-Envelope-From: killing@multiplay.co.uk Message-ID: <0CBA81A49FFC447C9452C9A27BC2D017@multiplay.co.uk> From: "Steven Hartland" To: "Mark Felder" , References: <20131114173423.GA21761@blazingdot.com> <59A9B68B-4134-4217-83F3-B99759174EFE@fisglobal.com> <5285148E.6020903@allanjude.com> <3D3332FA-0ABF-4573-8E65-4E7FBB37100B@fisglobal.com> <1384462198.13183.47596065.6F8E7BCD@webmail.messagingengine.com> Subject: Re: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:59:21 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Felder" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013, at 12:35, Teske, Devin wrote: >> >> I have never heard a good argument for having atime on. The performance >> penalty on ZFS is quite large, and it also makes your snapshots grow >> constant. If you have a use for it, you can turn it on I guess. This >> would be solved by having the dataset editor we're planning for 10.1 >> > > POLA and POSIX, even though it was a bad decision to invent atime :-) > We've never turned atime off before and it would be a huge surprise to > me, so I'd avocate that we let the admins who know what they're doing > turn it off. I know many Linux distros install with noatime and/or > nodiratime, but I'm 99% sure tools don't create filesystems with atime > flagged to be off by default (tune2fs -O noatime). > > We don't even do installs on UFS with atime disabled by default in fstab > so why should we so suddenly change course for ZFS? While I can see the reason some would argue to keep it on by default I personally think this is a good change. Why punish everyone forever due to poor design decision made in the distant past, just because a few select applications make use of said feature? Is not a change which benefits the masses but comes with a slight inconvenience of the select few, where they need to enable a feature no one else needs a good idea? Sure it needs to be clearly messaged so its not a surprise, but if thats done I'm all for it. Regards Steve ================================================ This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk.