From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Aug 26 14:11:45 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7ECB71353 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:11:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 281B8CB8 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:11:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id d65so27111774ith.0 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:11:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=GYf2Mkb9LHaD3O5mGfMjOnPj7qD/8E2rzSWQLM9yjtI=; b=DhyCcCW3s5RnMzjPZu5fMuroCFiCUlY1mch4ywiOYLaDrJl5veqo6d6RWJl6bd/kvQ 5Jvrj6/Q8QzVyi/1Pb9vNYgDXImRQBjLxUiBKT+zgq+Z4QcQAPsYe/q2R9kg4exJnmkw DMKwWub5ggMytEJHPLaB53HRLeCIE5i+kYTm43+4EBjur9S1zq4hRF2rIB8hd0EQBKqA MCx2zAXoarupW9WO2GAHoa3nLiNrMaxshMylk/UK673+ep2KO3yXAVhBh4PSU1oWkawv 04uGrNqsRcNfEEqeB+XEeBBsle7cEA2ciGE2C1pk18CfYzZC85UWH8xNvnKEzK7cAAE3 dSGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GYf2Mkb9LHaD3O5mGfMjOnPj7qD/8E2rzSWQLM9yjtI=; b=OTqXC/v2XwBJroQJC671hDgWFih7fhMLZLp6hOo30cuM/qrOhzMopMfBanZz8kBv2x by5nvC9kWdZACENEeMhcTb1PebB49z8T108KrdPoX/oJ9ShKLAV5B2yoFbqqfMImb+yk OyMLXrU9/zWwCDY3zq6WyicFpzmibZ2hxnWwMFmabijAyAsbStCnywWimwTaJVAgStl4 MypKU1iRljvYSErPqqpA6TWJll4YUkdq+3t46MdWmk3WF3SaeTkYbwftN250bTOmtXM5 vvHOU//Ope2U1saTBGZB8192Lf6zpBl+0zcAkAUI/0lNSlxf88TK2R1YsT0J6n4M2HKu mBWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwNNqzOz54BylnMEbN8oAtQfASqHOfiyjPL0Xc7wLi4Z3qrFhVBlhgV/bGcaPJ4ZFLC/tVkusK6XwHfWcw== X-Received: by 10.107.21.134 with SMTP id 128mr4154138iov.59.1472220704498; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:11:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.36.65.7 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [69.53.245.200] In-Reply-To: References: <37d5159b-4957-42f8-2252-fa53d7446bb6@NTLWorld.com> <20160825194820.GI92256@e-new.0x20.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:11:43 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: JpaXLBh-YRese_orewIbrlEKJ7s Message-ID: Subject: Re: Linuxisms in s6 To: Jan Bramkamp Cc: Adrian Chadd , Supervision , Jonathan de Boyne Pollard , Lars Engels , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:11:45 -0000 On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Jan Bramkamp wrote: > On 25/08/16 23:17, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> On 25 August 2016 at 14:13, Warner Losh wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>>> >>>> On 25 August 2016 at 12:48, Lars Engels wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 08:46:10AM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 August 2016 at 21:53, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://adrianchadd.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/freebsd-on-tiny-system-whats-missing.html?showComment=1471236502051#c1305086913155850955 >>>>>>> , Adrian Chadd: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We're using s6 at work, and it works out mostly ok. Mostly once you >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> around the linuxisms, and the lack of sensible time code in it (its >>>>>>>> calculations for daemon run duration is based on system time, not >>>>>>>> wall >>>>>>>> clock, so if your box boots jan 1, 1970 then gets NTP, things are.. >>>>>>>> hilarious), and some of the arcane bits to get logging working >>>>>>>> right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are these Linuxisms in s6? s6-linux-utils and s6-linux-init >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> Linuxisms, obviously. But what Linuxisms does s6 have? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We just had a bunch of fun trying to get it to build right, and the >>>>>> uptime stuff really threw us. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's fine though, I found that s6 may start growing an IPC mechanism >>>>>> so we could possibly do a launchd/jobd style service later (ie to run >>>>>> things upon event changes, like ifup, ifdown, ifcreate, ifdestroy, >>>>>> arbitrary messages, etc) so I may try incorporating it again. :) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can't this be done with devd? >>>> >>>> >>>> Sure, but I'm looking for something more generic than just devd. Like, >>>> notifications about events like "default route is up" can be done by >>>> sniffing the rtsock, but notifications like "ntpdate has updated the >>>> date, we can now do crypto services" doesn't happen there right now. >>> >>> >>> devd was never intended to be limited to just device events from the >>> kernel. It has grown beyond that, and could easily grow to cope with >>> routing events and other notifications. No need to reinvent everything >>> for that. >> >> >> Right. I don't want to reinvent the wheel if it can be avoided. > > > Afaik devd is limited handling events reported by the kernel on /etc/devctl. > There is no way to inject events into arbitrary events from userspace into > devd (no ptrace hacks don't count). It would be trivial to add though, especially since the author is easy to work with :). It already fans out data to multiple listeners. Warner