From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 26 20:49:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD3F1065671 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:49:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAF18FC28 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:49:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.27]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XYh71a0010b6N64A2Ypciy; Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:49:36 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([69.181.141.110]) by OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XYpb1a0042P6wsM8PYpbu9; Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:49:35 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=NMgbMNkgAAAA:8 a=RzwWTIVYAAAA:8 a=iLNU1ar6AAAA:8 a=cH6R9-kdAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=v6c4UUzHkwm2t02kLHIA:9 a=F_66DtAPzBqvvrx_jYYA:7 a=02yFB6DFJ25-kolLTtUXxAN7lFMA:4 a=pgSDvz2WSYwA:10 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 05F42C941E; Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:49:35 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Charles Sprickman Message-ID: <20081026204935.GA2429@icarus.home.lan> References: <20081026125017.GA88016@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCI-X SATA Card + Server Recommendation X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:49:37 -0000 On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 03:30:11PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> I was hoping the X5DPR-iG2+ would have a UIO slot, but it doesn't. Too >> old I guess. PCI-X is also slowly getting phased out too, so it's >> becoming harder to find native PCI-X cards. >> >> These are cards I can recommend for your situation. Yes, they do RAID, >> they all support JBOD; just plug the disks in and go. >> >> http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/series_2000.htm >> HighPoint RocketRAID 2210 (hptrr(4) driver; be sure to read NOTES) >> HighPoint RocketRAID 2220 (hptrr(4) driver; be sure to read NOTES) >> HighPoint RocketRAID 2224 (hptrr(4) driver; be sure to read NOTES) >> HighPoint RocketRAID 2240 (hptrr(4) driver; be sure to read NOTES) > > Ouch. I was thinking more along the lines of a dead-simple SATA card in > the under $50 range. I'm not up at all on PCI-X stuff, but I assume I > can go with a normal PCI card, right? Or 64-bit PCI (or is that PCI-X)? > What kind of performance hit would I have going from a PCI-X card to > something else, and if I remove the PCI-X restriction, is there another > recommended card? Any PCI 2.x or 3.x revision card should work fine in a PCI-X slot. Of course, the card will only run at 33MHz 32-bit (vs. 133MHz 64-bit, which is what native PCI-X is), but it'll still work. Most PCI cards are 32-bit 33MHz, but a 64-bit 33MHz PCI card should also work. The only PCI 1.x cards will probably fry your motherboard; they use a 5V bus, not a 3.3V bus. :-) This doesn't apply to your situation, but it's good knowledge for others who are reading: You can also use a PCI-X card in a PCI slot -- some of the connector pins will "hang off" the end of the slot without worry -- but ONLY IF the PCI-X card specifically states it works in 32-bit 33MHz mode. The specsheet/manual will state something like this; it if doesn't, don't risk it. >> http://www.areca.com.tw/products/pcix.htm >> Areca ARC-1110 (arcmsr(4) driver) >> Areca ARC-1120 (arcmsr(4) driver) >> Areca ARC-1130 (arcmsr(4) driver) >> Areca ARC-1160 (arcmsr(4) driver) >> Areca ARC-1130ML (arcmsr(4) driver) >> Areca ARC-1160ML (arcmsr(4) driver) >> >> The FreeBSD community members who have Areca cards have been thrilled >> with them, and *do* use the native RAID features reliably. > > I looked at those last time I was shopping. The only thing that really > bugged me about them was the fan on the card. I know that sounds silly, > but when you're spending 4 figures and a $3 fan is what's keeping the > card from frying, and you can't monitor that fan... I just didn't like > that. Regarding the fan -- the card has RPM monitoring of the on-board fan, and it's reported inside of the card BIOS, as well as the CLI utilities. Also, the user manual states the following: ========= Included in the product box is a field replaceable passive heatsink to be used only if there is enough airflow to adequately cool the passive heatsink. The "Controller Fan Detection" function is available in the version 1.36 date: 2005-05-19 and later for preventing the Buzzer warning. When using the passive heatsink, disable the "Controller Fan Detection" function through this McBIOS RAID manager setting. The following screen shot shows how to change the McBIOS RAID manager setting to disable the beeper function. (This function is not available in the web browser setting.) ========= I believe this means, assuming you set up monitoring of the card properly, you can monitor fan RPMs, and also get an alert if the fan dies (presumably RPM == 0, or possibly RPM < 250). There's an audible buzzer (see above) which also gets emit if the fan dies. Finally, tihe Areca CLI utilities are FreeBSD-native and do not require Linux emulation. I refuse to buy any card or software which requires such -- absolutely preposterous in this day and age. (I'm looking at you, Brother (printer manufacturer)) > We have one Supermicro at a client site with the IPMI card. A total > waste of money. It was/is flakey as hell and not something we rely on at > all. I'd never even look at IPMI again. IPMI -- great in concept, *horribly* implemented because there's really no "standard" to how all these vendors do it. >> If you really want a KVM-over-IP solution, consider a KVM-over-IP device >> like ones from Aten; they'll work with anything. In reply to my own comment, there's something I should mention about KVM-over-IP switches: "virtual media" support. They all require a USB connection between the KVM-over-IP switch and the host system. That made me pretty much ignore "virtual media" with such switches, but all the rest of the features are useful. Also, there's a huge problem with KVM-over-IP that isn't immediately thought of until one is actually in the situation (and I've witnessed this twice in private mails when helping other FreeBSD users): KVM-over-IP switches remove your ability to copy/paste data from the VGA console into, say, an Email. If you're needing to debug something in a bootloader or in the kernel and it requires more than a page of output, you're kinda screwed (what're you going to do, take 50 photos with a digital camera as fast as the screen scrolls?). Just something to keep in mind for those who might be considering this route. > I'm a bit intrigued by the Dell and HP add-in cards that are NOT IPMI, > but do offer a full remote console. The cost appears to be about the > same as an IPMI card. I've never bought either brand before though, and > I have no idea how well supported these things are under FreeBSD > (especially their own branded RAID controllers). > > Dell PowerEdge R200 (upgrade CPU to C2D or Xeon, add RAID, add DRAC card) > - around $1500 > http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=becwuk1&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&kc=category~rack_optimized > > The DRAC card, which has it's own ethernet port and supports booting from > an ISO, etc.: > > http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Networking_Communication/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=313-2822 > > On the HP side, the DL160 looks interesting as well. Like the Dell, info > on the RAID controllers is pretty slim. Here's their "lights out" > management option: > > http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3778577 > > Apparently it's already on the server, and you license advanced features. > Probably a shared NIC situation... iLO/iLO2 = Integrated Lights-Out (v2), which means the remote management chip is on-board, rather than requiring purchase of an add-in card. LOM/LOM2 are terms for the older systems which require the actual external card. The best remote management I've ever seen has been on HP/Compaq Proliant systems with iLO/LOM/LOM2. Downright one of the most useful features I've ever seen. It was a total trip seeing an ex-roommate of mine sit in our living room with his Windows laptop, installing Red Hat onto a server in Australia, using the Red Hat CD in his laptop, while having pure control over the system even before it boots. That is *absolutely* how it should be done. Of course, the "virtual media" feature of the iLO often requires a license of some kind, which costs $$$. Regarding shared NIC on iLO: absolutely not. HP/Compaq knows better than this. All the iLO stuff has a pure dedicated NIC. See "Rear panel components" in the service guide manual, note item #11: http://Fbizsupport.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c01555951%2Fc01555951.pdf On the other hand, IMHO, HP/Compaq hardware is *incredibly* overpriced for no justified reason. And if I remember right, you're forced to buy all of your H/W from them (hard disks, cards, RAM, whatever). The iLO is one thing which is truly remarkable about their hardware. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB |