Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:24:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Erlin <tperlin@yahoo.com> To: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>, tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I'm leaving Message-ID: <20010515192449.181.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3B01767A.1C24A9D7@acuson.com>
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All of this conversation seems to center on the fact/assumption that there is/can be only one distribution of FreeBSD. I would think that if the target market were Joe Average, a 'Consumer' version might be offered. It could include things like suggested defaults for the most basic functionality, installation with pretty pictures, etc. I've never gotten the sense (after maybe 6 months of actually using FreeBSD) that anybody wanted FreeBSD on my parent's PC. I haven't been reading the advocacy list, so maybe I missed it, but I certainly didn't install FreeBSD because I thought it would make a great workstation. Of course, the guy who started this thread wasn't looking to replace his NT workstations either, if I recall... --Tim --- David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com> wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > This is really insufficient, I think. > > Okay, you pushed by hot button... > > If you desire a default GUI desktop preconfigured > for newbies, to be > standard on each and every install, then you have to > start somewhere. In > the mean time, it may be prudent to consider that > some folks don't want > a standard default desktop, let alone one > preconfigured for newbies. > > > Unfortunately, you can't replace the entire > install > > process and cut your own CDROMs, and still call it > > FreeBSD, according to the trademark holders. > > No one (I think) was suggesting anything like this. > The closest > suggestions were to improve what was already there. > Using a port is > still operating within "the system". No one needs to > burn their own > newbie-CDs. > > Going up to the core team and saying "we want you to > change x, y and z, > is doomed to failure. However, getting a port > committed is easy. Then > you can go up to the core team and say "we want you > to change just x > because y and z are already on the CD". Presumably > "x" would be another > option in the "choose desktop" menu. > > > Having to grovel in the bowels of the packaging > system > > is a non-starter: if I have to go through all the > > partitioning and other crap, or I boot to a > non-graphical > > login, well, you've already lost me, if I'm Joe > Average > > User... > > Joe Average doesn't have to do any of that crap for > Windows, because his > computer manufacturer has done it for him already. > His idea of > "installation" is handing his credit card over to > the cashier. FreeBSD > is already *easier* to install than Windows. It only > seems harder > because it doesn't come preinstalled with your new > machine. > > Speaking of partitioning, compare the FreeBSD fdisk > to the Windows > fdisk... > > And there have been many times when I wished Windows > had a non-graphical > login. Like those times that Windows won't boot up > because the video > isn't configured right, and I can't configure the > video right because I > can't boot up Windows... > > The biggest attraction of FreeBSD and other unices > is the control the > user has over the system. Much of this control comes > through choice. If > you eliminate this choice you destroy the control, > and FreeBSD loses > it's attraction. If KDE is to be the mandatory > desktop, then the GNOME > user has to go through the completely pointless > process of uninstalling > KDE (if it's even possible) or keeping it around > just to take up space. > And vice versa. And why should those wanting a > firewall have to endure > KDE/GNOME/QT/GTK/X11? > > It is sufficient for sysinstall to ask me if I want > X11, and then if I > answer 'yes' to ask me what desktop/wm I want. This > is how the process > currently works. The original posting on this > subject (at least how I > interpreted it) was: 1) make a non-mandatory default > desktop if no other > desktop was chosen, and 2) add icons and menu items > to the desktop > packages that point to the FreeBSD documentation. > The first is a > decision to be made by the core team. The second can > be done by anyone > by submitting a port. > > In fact, now that I think about it, you could call > this port > "freebsd-desktop", and it would add FreeBSD specific > icons and menu > items to any installed desktop that it detects. > > David > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of > the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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