From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG  Wed Sep 12 07:55:36 2012
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512491065670;
	Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:55:36 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36])
	by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D0D14DED1;
	Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <50503FF6.4050605@FreeBSD.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 21:55:34 -1000
From: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org>
Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
	rv:15.0) Gecko/20120827 Thunderbird/15.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ian Lepore <freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org>
References: <50451D6E.30401@FreeBSD.org> <20120903214638.GO1464@x96.org>
	<50453686.9090100@FreeBSD.org>
	<20120904220754.GA3643@server.rulingia.com>
	<20120906174247.GB13179@dragon.NUXI.org>
	<20120906230157.5307a21f@gumby.homeunix.com>
	<20120906224703.GD89120@x96.org>
	<20120907015157.GA29497@server.rulingia.com>
	<20120910135218.GA68128@dragon.NUXI.org>
	<867gs2hqtt.fsf@ds4.des.no>
	<20120911054608.GA72584@dragon.NUXI.org>
	<1347373256.1137.52.camel@revolution.hippie.lan>
In-Reply-To: <1347373256.1137.52.camel@revolution.hippie.lan>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: Arthur Mesh <arthurmesh@gmail.com>, freebsd-rc@FreeBSD.ORG,
	obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG,
	RW <rwmaillists@googlemail.com>,
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= <des@des.no>,
	Xin Li <delphij@delphij.net>
Subject: Re: svn commit: r239569 - head/etc/rc.d
X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]"
	<freebsd-security.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>, 
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-security@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>, 
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:55:36 -0000

On 09/11/2012 04:20 AM, Ian Lepore wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 22:46 -0700, David O'Brien wrote:
>>
>>> -r just changes the sort order, which is probably pointless.
>>
>> I'm not wedded to "-r", but since you're proposing this to not use "-r",
>> which Ian Lepore suggested after instrumenting /etc/rc.d/initrandom and
>> looking at the output, please show a diff of two boots with "-r" and
>> without "-r" so can see what the change really is.
>>
> 
> I observed that the order of displayed processes could differ from one
> reboot to the next, even on an embedded system where little else
> differed.  It seemed to me that a difference in order, while small,
> might be significant.

Yes, even small changes that early in the process help with the replay
scenario, even if they don't feed a large amount of unique entropy into
the device.

Doug