From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 21:30:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358B8106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21738FC1C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so762672qcs.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ay3RoPOZ9zqNcCOe053E3VI6jWU8jEtQ7Ow8JeNbXl4=; b=qcgh1www0lj2hchHu0bkfbN9u7JJ6AUN4KrJyiZab69H/giEtfrY6qMj3ptaPJXRui +W3wvwx2G9yK2H7jegsOHalSP3XONuNmj54mauyWjWSXpQylgLalQhF6mayHAf2r7xb/ OnDA6dWbqX5cSXSOBOzOgEjS8MShFfnXWR8CoOuX6D2z2y8pG9Vmem//TZJdvyZ1fYaJ kJhOEaP7zBDIvNIgTyE6MRgMxZ+hb/v8Zng/E7CK6EGbSgR6d8+TQ7zIFBQMKtAeolx8 NDjfBrEGYOuTPSCPIbIBUphEWFvysPSmC/kfuKRv11YkAtLt/tm9wzujhyzmtu8ens4Q EqAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.101.72 with SMTP id b8mr5678536qao.53.1335562242234; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.91.138 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:43 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > installation structure : > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it > is . > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT > root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters > which it is approximately ZERO . > > Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT > use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting > MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . > > This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really > very tiring for experienced users . And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being forced to use the system "the project" thinks everyone needs. We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that time is spent undoing all the "helpful" abstractions that Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal pain for CLI users. Compared to FreeBSD where you get a nice, barebones system where we spend some time *building up* the system we want, instead of tearing down/removing excess crud. The beauty of FreeBSD as well, is that there are other projects that build on FreeBSD to create super-simple-easy-to-use-ready-from-the-word-go setups, like PC-BSD. :) > With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD > is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is > only to create another obstacle for it . Everything you rant about is covered by PC-BSD ... yet, you don't want PC-BSD. :) > Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a > simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Considering how long it's been used by various people around the world, I would hardly call PC-BSD "untested". Maybe it's time to fire up a VM and try it? You may be pleasantly surprised that everything you are complaining about is there, ready and waiting for you to click on it. > Thank you very much . > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com