From nobody Wed Nov 22 05:40:53 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SZqq00MjFz51s6X for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2023 05:41:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 0x1eef@protonmail.com) Received: from mail-4316.protonmail.ch (mail-4316.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.16]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SZqpz5LM0z4Lj6 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2023 05:40:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 0x1eef@protonmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1700631656; x=1700890856; bh=gQomlnNJZdaTY/Xc/P3M9oAG7vqDQ3jD8rdMaCrZ1N4=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=U4s7A+yPxZaO4ksBngM+bTCZ0z+JYvnr5Fyz975MQfpRm12LJbf3TQ0KtD64u16+A Ep0Zz0b45i2VYStRX80pflEwTFj/SyU2+VLnBJ3C7i6SoyW1FZwAmwPFNdCLuO2Rc0 d60j//DwhuIUU4niQFWzH1GUod90Ic5sAUKVyle++o7aqk6IUUBdq0Z7GU/JZLmGgh SjAJnhnoz98n5mysOVvFcSBNCyau8bR4IRhcKN41vH93GnX/BPTYj6IqzI63nalinr kPJO1UxkWJmIGZlSjxqBux0NcFX7dkAYb/Oz9j/awJ56wok3YKlAtnTqoVKJwhPw4E 5ucXBYTGauicA== Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2023 05:40:53 +0000 To: iio7@tutanota.com From: 0x1eef <0x1eef@protonmail.com> Cc: Freebsd Questions Subject: Re: I am sick and tired of the poor quality of documentation on FreeBSD Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20231121203038.9484f62455034022a4689468@sohara.org> Feedback-ID: 39071764:user:proton List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62371, ipnet:185.70.43.0/24, country:CH] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SZqpz5LM0z4Lj6 On Tuesday, November 21st, 2023 at 6:10 PM, iio7@tutanota.com wrote: >=20 >=20 > > Nov 21, 2023, 21:30 by steve@sohara.org: > >=20 > > > You did of course read the release notes right ? The rather good > > > documentation provided by the FreeBSD project for each new release. > > > Specifically this section that tells you exactly what to do and why. > > >=20 > > > https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/relnotes/#upgrade > > >=20 > > > Documentation is only useful if you read it! BEFORE you do things. > > >=20 > > > > Something like this doesn't help! > > > > Pool 'zroot' has the bootfs property set, you might need to update = the > > > > boot code. See gptzfsboot(8) and loader.efi(8) for details. > > >=20 > > > It's a warning not documentation, heeding it could have saved you > > > much trouble. > > >=20 > > > > I might need to update the boot code!? WTF does that even mean? > > >=20 > > > It seems pretty clear that you should make sure you understand it > > > and do what is necessary before you reboot. The boot code is (as the = name > > > implies) the code used to boot the system which has to be able to rea= d the > > > filesystem containing the OS, which it can't if that filesystem has b= een > > > updated with features that the existing boot code does not support. > > >=20 > > > > I never touched any boot code during installation so I don't even k= now > > > > what that is! And reading those man pages did NOT help me in any wa= y. > > >=20 > > > If you had read the release notes you would know what to do, and > > > surely the name "boot code" is sufficiently descriptive as to what it= is. > > >=20 > > > > So now I got a box that's borked with this beautiful message after > > > > updating the zroot pool: > > >=20 > > > AND rebooting without updating the boot code right ? > > >=20 > > > > ZFS: unsupported feature: com.delphix:head_errlog > > > > ZFS: pool zroot is not supported > > > > Can't find /boot/zfsloader > > > > Can't find /boot/loader > > > > Can't find /boot/kernel/kernel > > >=20 > > > Now you're going to need this article in the forums which a search > > > would have found for you in a few seconds: > > >=20 > > > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/upgrade-14-relase-root-on-zfs-rebo= ot-before-update-boot-code-and-stuck-at-efi-shell.91035/ > > >=20 > > > You might want to thank T-Aoki and note the rather more polite way > > > someone else who got themselves into this mess asked for help. >=20 >=20 > The release engineering and related documentation suck as usual. Polite m= y ass. I have had it. >=20 > I have been on FreeBSD for more than 20 years and always have to deal wit= h shitload of problems on this operating system ONLY due to the lack of doc= umentation. >=20 > I read the man pages, I read the forum post, which doesn't help shit when= the next crap you run into is this: >=20 > ZFS: unsupported feature: com.klarasystems:vdev_zaps_vs >=20 > Nothing should break this bad during a simple upgrade and then have the g= uy responsible for the documentation to make a fucking blog post about the = missing documentation on the website: >=20 > https://www.daemonology.net/blog/2023-11-21-late-breaking-FreeBSD-14-brea= kage.html >=20 > "but there are a few last-minute issues which deserve to bedocumented = =E2=80=94 probably somewhere on the FreeBSD website, but I canpost to my bl= og much faster and hopefully we'll get these onto the FreeBSDwebsite later.= " >=20 > Oh, and let's not forget this one: >=20 > "stand: Fix oversight in updating OpenZFS: Add com.klarasystems:vdev_zaps= _v2com.klarasystems:vdev_zaps_v2 is a new feature that the last OpenZFSimpo= rt brought in. It needs to be on the list of supported features, butthat up= date didn't happen so I woke up to a mailbox with multiplecomplaints." >=20 > Thank you very much! Amazing work. I can understand your frustration. But at the same time, if you're angry,= =20 wait until that passes, and then send an email. FreeBSD does not charge=20 you anything to use their operating system, a lot of people contribute=20 in their free time, and mistakes can happen.=20 As far as documentation goes, the various FreeBSD handbooks are superb (to = me), while the Arch Wiki doesn't really do it for me. It can be different stroke= s for different folks.