Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:45:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> To: jkh@osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Cc: jessemonroy@email.com, jessem@livecam.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Concern over ftp.freebsd.org Message-ID: <200105032146.OAA02712@usr05.primenet.com> In-Reply-To: <20010503112139V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at May 03, 2001 11:21:39 AM
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I don't appreciate the mini-flame-fest, and I don't appreciate this being moved from -hackers, and turned into a mailing list version of The Jerry Springer Show. It feels very much like an attempt to bury legitimate, and, admittedly, _very poorly_ voiced concerns, under a hail of noise. Here is my opinion. I think that there is some legitimate concern over the, to all appearances, unheralded demise of ftp.freebsd.org. I also believe that this is a legitimate topic for -hackers, since code which can not be obtained, can not be the subject of active developement. As someone who uses FreeBSD in a business context, and has off and on since 1993, it is alarming to go out and try to grab a distribution, only to find out that it's not where you expected it to be. It's also extremely alarming to find out that the official mirrors have mirrored the disappearance. I personally only found out as a result of attempting to build a release locally, only to have it fail to retrieve two of the 35 ports distribution files needed to perform that operation. When this happened, it seriously underscored the degree to which the FreeBSD project depends on good faith effort by agencies not under the projects direct control (as Linux depends on the good faith and continued existance of Linus and those lieutenants who hold the keys to the non-repository maintained source tree). In the process, which was the creation of an internal release, not a competing release, I found a number of other issues which would preclude someone else from taking up the banner of FreeBSD CDROM creation, should California break off and sink into the ocean (or Jordan get hit by a bus or crucified by Jesus). I'm glad that it's been stated that one or two of the seven or so issues in the way of something like this are now in the process of being addressed; I've been following the -hubs list discussions, for example, with a close eye on the process. It is slow, but appears to be making some small headway. But there are a number of outstanding issues remaining sadly unaddressed, and they would most certainly shake the faith of anyone else basing a product or developement environment on an assumption that FreeBSD will always be around in the form it has been historically. It shook my faith, and I've been around and an advocate since day one. I wouldn't go to the heights of paranoia that I've seen in this thread, and elsewhere, in forums probably not frequented by the FreeBSD crowd. On the other hand, it's pretty clear that there are outstanding issues that remain to be addressed. I would like to see at least lip service being paid to a plan to address these issues quickly, and in the near future. Here is what outsiders have seen: Walnut Creek effectively sold FreeBSD to BSDI, in what appeared to many of us to be an arranged marriage. The Windriver acquisition feels more like a Mexican divorce, followed immediately by another arranged marriage with an older gentleman whom our parents have chosen for us on the theory that our judgement is suspect based on our previous failed marriage. It may be that FreeBSD has married for security, or that it will grow to love this new husband; either way, it's only natural that the bride be a little distrustful and circumspect, until she finds out for sure that she hasn't married a giant who grinds the bones of interlopers to make bread. For example, I think there is great uncertainty in the hearts of people who use FreeBSD in embedded systems whether or not the giant will appreciate the new bride having other male friends... this is evident in this thread, evident in other discussion I have seen (with and without my participation), and evident on the -small list and within the PicoBSD community. The situation with ftp.freebsd.org is unfortunate, as coincidence goes. It does not add to the trust. The lag in communication has also been unfortunate; contrary to the adage, "no news" is "very bad news indeed". The biggest and most important task is timely and adequate communication. Perhaps we can grant the benefit of the doubt, at least for a little while, so long as confidence in FreeBSD is not damaged as a result of granting it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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