From nobody Tue Jan 9 17:43:18 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T8fBl4vbmz5673F for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 18:11:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T8fBl3WDJz4T2m for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 18:11:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 18:43:18 +0100 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: robert@rrbrussell.com Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Message-ID: <20240109174318.MCIB6yhn@steffen%sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <5f370bce-bcdb-47ea-aaa7-551ee092a7d3@app.fastmail.com> References: <2eabfb91-afc3-47f7-98b9-1a1791ae6e7d@app.fastmail.com> <6714298.qJWK8QVVMX@ravel> <5f370bce-bcdb-47ea-aaa7-551ee092a7d3@app.fastmail.com> Mail-Followup-To: robert@rrbrussell.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.24-585-g9999e323b6 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T8fBl3WDJz4T2m X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE] robert@rrbrussell.com wrote in <5f370bce-bcdb-47ea-aaa7-551ee092a7d3@app.fastmail.com>: |On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, at 05:13, void wrote: |> On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 09:47:59AM +0100, Olivier Certner wrote:i |>> So, to me, at this point, it still sounds more than a gimmick=20 |>> than something really useful. If someone has a precise use case=20 Email existence checks are in UNIX for many decades. In fact since 1974-11-26 when Ken Thompson added that to login(1). "You have new mail" is in BSD since Commit: Bill Joy CommitDate: 1978-11-05 19:59:54 -0800 Start development on BSD 3 Create reference copy of all prior development files in BSD Mail and csh(1). And today in bash(1), for example, there can be read /* If the user has just run a program which manipulates the mail file, then don't bother explaining that the mail file has been manipulated. Since some systems don't change the access time to be equal to the modification time when the mail in the file is manipulated, check the size also. If the file has not grown, continue. */ if ((atime >=3D mtime) && !file_is_bigger) continue; /* If the mod time is later than the access time and the file has grown, note the fact that this is *new* mail. */ if (use_user_notification =3D=3D 0 && (atime < mtime) && file_is_bi= gger) message =3D _("You have new mail in $_"); I would not exactly call this a gimmick. On Linux mount(8) from https://github.com/karelzak/util-linux says relatime Update inode access times relative to modify or change time. Access time is only updated if the previous access time was earlier than or equal to the current modify or change time. (Similar to noatime, but it doesn=E2=80=99t break mutt(1) or other applications that need= to know if a file has been read since the last time it was modified.) and this is what i use, except for some noatime mount points (/x/doc, /x/music, /x/pub, to be exact). --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)