From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Apr 11 20:26:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4D9279FE3 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 20:26:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gbergling@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4905xk59npz44sn; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 20:26:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gbergling@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id v5so5980117wrp.12; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:26:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wjt70VTi/AmQKAW61e7dAeSNJBUJry0VKAqPmO9+dj0=; b=aAp4iCHC0tCSLiPpyiGDS7hkA3E0Yr1fXCkk2XJP3wgb5JP9r8x9p0EQo7HB58ZSL0 nOtJZ9P29Tb7qZnEBp+05IED6iCXBSO5gxANiGb4spbtLW+gPq5zicRYhv74Y56rot5b FoBZJWbDySPpeHIHHIAm3uV+RTKkqNG9CZTnPnALuRgf8DLKIsOi1CGmXYh1HXVMJJvS gLIakchJ3nGQ8WkZa0rf7kdwgMzf8/RZ37r5cWjGFC+9ULuaLa3rEMb5SnVhSW45R5nW Yuk2MTdnAqfLPw8Nii7cQxlNMD1LiODXU+ffumARUBc9Zjqq10NbLWrhZUFEx2AQeBPH HKNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wjt70VTi/AmQKAW61e7dAeSNJBUJry0VKAqPmO9+dj0=; b=gzfUhaafuYPDrm744HUzQKCKngxl586gjPsH8x9UvTWNF5FIZHGEepZ37VHQ6kuMO8 h+xH8x3yy4P0OJinf3XKmNNo+tOcG25oYPcE4fqjEyAICIqAJBEsx76mlumZ7KG8EmDk x1xHmhe6Yy838y9qV1J2vOeoicVltdTZ3ty0sm3zzcrb5ZAcFkBPOu7WoG+UjsYdnAGz PqylD0zwOqOs26ZTSemyqtjOfW7pW0lQs2ntIAgagpHwZdKeZF5dycrwV6n89xXe6EEZ 4F2SKtrC6ZcRuhTtMDlBKBuWgHM5iHO2EhKQHgMJCqg7h5L3yITKrZurRLOj3zZcH4qC X3og== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubRjxssZL6J8xZRTYAg1ViFhWrGYJAyRNy3dilLcaNcj3G2lsZ5 NYZ2r5ckFarxshbxbslUrhocgZiE73Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKhsZxX8MPIQTW3/kDgS9ochVySJBnaWYmI0FHNPDieQ0UJrJhZ434YndE9NlvhyPwdnhkb1A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:97cc:: with SMTP id t12mr9981532wrb.261.1586636776935; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.111] (p4FD3AF72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.211.175.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l5sm8500866wrm.66.2020.04.11.13.26.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience From: Gordon Bergling In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 22:26:15 +0200 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1FFE298E-A609-4570-A0BD-E530996C92CF@gmail.com> References: To: Ed Maste X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4905xk59npz44sn X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=aAp4iCHC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gbergling@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::431 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gbergling@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[114.175.211.79.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.10), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 20:26:19 -0000 Hi Ed, I read this article a few times in detail, but some parts are still = driving me nuts. I agree that FreeBSD isn=E2=80=99t maybe that best = Operating System for the Desktop User, but please, nailing it all down = on the installation experience is strange at least. I think, it would = good to have an official response from the FreeBSD Foundation, to say at = least. =E2=80=94 Gordon > Am 09.04.2020 um 21:05 schrieb Ed Maste : >=20 > Jim Salter has an article in Ars Technica discussing his experience > with FreeBSD 12.1 as a desktop: > = https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/not-actually-linux-distro-review-f= reebsd-12-1-release/ >=20 > There are some points in there that might involve misunderstanding, > but there are also a number of real issues raised about the experience > a new (or newish) desktop FreeBSD user will have. It will be a good > idea for us to examine these, and offer advice or corrections if > appropriate, and otherwise look how we can improve the FreeBSD > experience for new users. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"