From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 21 23:53:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CF516A4CE for ; Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotmail.com (sea1-f99.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.99]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15C643D2D for ; Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crollins666@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:53:40 -0800 Received: from 216.19.22.118 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:53:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.19.22.118] X-Originating-Email: [crollins666@hotmail.com] X-Sender: crollins666@hotmail.com From: "clayton rollins" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:53:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2004 07:53:40.0424 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC518C80:01C3F918] Subject: Re: I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple to use? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:53:40 -0000 Niel wrote: > >Written 21st january 2004. > >I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple to use? > >I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple, and yet >comprehensive to use. > >When I need help to some question, when using freebsd, I often get very >confused, and cannot find out how to do it. > >Often I find some manual, but then pages and pages start scrolling past my >eyes, and soon I am very confused, and my brain looses track of what it >trying to do. Often there is some tecnical abbreviations mixed into the >explanation, which we do not know at all, what is! > >There exist a very comprehensive documentation for freebsd, man, faq etc. >So far, that is very good. Leave it as it is. That is okay for later >reading. > >But what I am searching for, is very short manuals for every topic and >program. How to install it, where the files are sitting, how to set-up. >Just a very simple example, for just to get a basic program running. And >also a very basic example for using the program, so you at least are >getting it up and running. Then you can later experiment with more >complicated items and the programs. > >I am also in search for a very big handbook, with cross reference word, for >ALL words. So you can find out, where to look, every thinkable word you >might meet, when installing and using freebsd. > >I am a newbee, and I cannot simply remember, where I last read -or found a >subject. I mean, most endusers simply do not have such a glue brain, that >they can remember. (Many times they simply tells themselves: "Let me stay >with windows. That I am used to.) > >I have tried using linux red hat, caldera and suse, and I have now begun >using FreeBSD, and I find it the best system so far, with the most easy >help system. Nothing wrong with that. > >To sum up. Please simple manuals for all the some 6.000 programs, shell >commands, etc, with lots of simple to understand examples, so one at least >can get started. > >This is just a newbees hottest wish. > >Even Microsoft have not yet found out, how important above is. It is the >alpha and omega, for using operating systems and programs, for ordinary >people. ( I have even found the same problems in manuals for tv, video and >so on. ) > >I mean many people have difficulties just reading a simple explanation. > >It is okay, to make very sophisticated programs, but it is as important, >that the enduser can find out, how to use it. > >And, please use simple English words. We enduser come from all parts of the >world, and do not all have the English language as our native language. And >please no humour! :-) If you live in Africa, you do not know American >slang? > >Yes, I still have a dream ..... *smiling - positive* > >Regards, > >A freebsd "Grassroot", hoping to saw just a tiny seed in some smart >programmers mind, so we can start begin really using UNIX type operating >systems, instead og windows 98! *serious - thinking - :-) * Hi Niel, You seem to have good fluency in the english language (congratulations), but I'll try not to use any slang. I share your "dream," but I see the problem as having many causes. For one, sysinstall should be easier to use. I find it rather easy, but conceed that it would give many windows users problems. While I, and many others, have ideas on this, no one has yet provided a solution. (The problem is much harder than it appears on the surface. And, much bikeshedding (no clear word in english; just means endless deliberation over specifications, impeeding implementation) occurs when the issue is raised.) (ie. I feel the primary problem is with new users having to turn to documentation to simply install a working system. Covering doc.s bit by bit while using the system is easy enough with the current system, I feel. And, many things can still be done with a point-and-click mentality.) Documentation such as you describe (crosslinked everywhere) would be wasteful for web-based implementation, but I could definitely see the usefullness for new users, on their local system. You might consider writing the doc. project to see if they're interested in producing that. (Or, give it a shot yourself and supply the project with any doc.s you come up with.) However, there are a few things you mention, example - shell commands, that are not the freebsd project's responsibility to document. Unfortunately, in many cases, this leaves you with the man pages and what you can google on it. There are a number of books on *nix and the common shells, though. While this could be done, I think we would both agree that improving/expanding existing documentaion is more important. Regards, Clayton PS. with such a well-thought idea, you might try to reach a wider audience. (-advocacy and -doc may have been good to CC; feel free to FWD the subject.) _________________________________________________________________ Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/