From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 20 19:34:42 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF41D28 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:34:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com (mail-ie0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4BD11AC for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:34:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f181.google.com with SMTP id x12so16389591ief.26 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=N7clhRrp7dwS8PAKGJ4b46q7PU68d0Z0YDyOAgyso0k=; b=mnPprHTjwWDMnAnFsNPacrS+QZKg4xgRvR8S//8uh/5Khu/0x/OK+eKHf0bpFIX2Nh +UGk32VtM6SLpVaTuAAViF82kFXPxdrZUZ43/3Qi3LQ2gmz61PmqOVA5wYy50iVYoW5N 7hKz3fOWr1J+RJJMKbSprbrco7zd5BAbBhPBe8RHOCcw2ykkCpy3ZDcf7QeUpj6kzscd e4VMZyXpr51l/JZnOO8V4PempsKvAkoHucmvC6qnXsH3ZgUJH1J6ze3sPT9YqRZkf0IU FAnsR/lGzVnIkhOTer7iZofC3sxDUaZ+2G/xnYe9oTQGWHuFpydPZroOHZ44VCA2DSG3 1l+w== X-Received: by 10.43.78.16 with SMTP id zk16mr705633icb.63.1371756882122; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.53] (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n8sm11320195igk.7.2013.06.20.12.34.40 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: svn commit: r251886 - in head: contrib/apr contrib/apr-util contrib/serf contrib/sqlite3 contrib/subversion share/mk usr.bin usr.bin/svn usr.bin/svn/lib usr.bin/svn/lib/libapr usr.bin/svn/lib/libap... Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 13:34:36 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <68D70A89-22F2-412C-BAF4-72BEFE21EB2F@bsdimp.com> References: <201306180253.r5I2rj45053959@svn.freebsd.org> <11DA3D8A-AD20-4DE1-B807-D09814F61947@bsdimp.com> <51C1C7BD.9060201@FreeBSD.org> <201306191113.29703.jhb@freebsd.org> <8D00BE2B-FD8E-4E7B-B818-1C4B7F6BB6A5@bsdimp.com> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlaxYwtsVpFuCHwn7Zk+X4lOgPqOljEZ4XgnW/SgDpGdmhEBor5WfDUn3LXDeqOuacGi/4r Cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann , John Baldwin , Peter Wemm , svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, Tijl Coosemans X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:34:42 -0000 On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:40 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 20 Jun 2013, at 00:10, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >>> - FreeBSD developers, who are probably okay with installing a port, = but would prefer a version that didn't depend on kitchen/sink? >>>=20 >>> - Users, who wish to be able to update the source tree and then = either build world, or build some optional parts that are not part of = the default install? >>>=20 >>> - Some other category of svn consumer? >>>=20 >>> I think having a definitive statement as to the intention of svnlite = would help frame the discussion in a more productive format. >>=20 >> How do I roll back to last week with FreeBSD-update? >=20 > Which of the classes of user that I outlined do you think wants to be = able to do that? As a FreeBSD user, I never felt the desire to do that, = but maybe I was unusual. As a FreeBSD developer, I don't mind = installing the svn port to be able to do it (although I'd prefer a more = lightweight port). I would expect the same to apply to the sort of = engaged user who is willing to bisect to track down a bug. =20 People trying new versions of FreeBSD. Some of them install the release, = others might install a snapshot, some will do an install world. But if = it worked in release 9.3 and broke in 9.4, then to find where they would = need to install an svn port to get all the points in between. Not having to install a port, possibly a port that got messed up by the = world you just build, is a big win for me in my mind. Users often have = commented to me that running FreeBSD gets harder and harder with more = hoops to jump through to do things that used to be easy. Installing svn = is one more hoop. It, by itself isn't a huge hoop, but if we can avoid = that hoop we should. I do mind installing a port to do this. We've kicked too much out of the = tree in the name of anti-bloat, and frankly I'm glad to see this. I think insisting on a definitive statement on svn lite's mission = statement is a way to obstruct progress. Sometimes you just need to = things because they feel right, not because they have been through a = 20-step approval process... Warner