From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 23 11:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10704A6DF4 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF0B18C410 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: YSDbnbQVM1nfgk_tHpW9xN8sb_oURfINmvJoGeFfhbjuBK22izm9x3PLmd39VVW slXyr3j68QBWTt1jPUwF6cZI13pHPKqQBq42g_5FmXm74DCIRGVOJnqEgVCaJm0D9Mc4cGEbmgRY 5XC6HL7n.yJk6zBrLevrS8y2fsLb07uNuMywxdFbQbBGJTKGVP0Tf332fljIHVX5qxrBq9yf_1T5 nepvwulfqyWkda7JgPbgN3pEe5Co7BJAe13bmASv09o7Lk.ThUZ.LwadLhNgeiPwQSSTV0M8..vB takXU7U4gIgMh4loauBsJ25yNLYTp3b.73Vp4D4gfa1ffwZqYXDvch9GwixUd5bWR26I_oW4u2Pr loJeP1sCKoZAESC6tUcUyZY0kFZr6J4lvwYez5tkegvCOWkOwPJUHDOE6CyYAmJ2T15bYqKDYX0e YOZ10NZlsfODRsNTx1OyyJ6nlyzTfQvPyodEFaQn8HIm9zC9lDrTozcNs7bdUxhZgZrKqMYEOZmt q2lx0fXreJFO5vVAL3OSkgOK5PFUH17vBPl_wJaQs5OUJQxdB.Gol712.3V0OqfBWu0uJmGhM.xs nkJwkpX52PjPCHNOgltbcRkHEWkRQ7T81Z21jmv2BMMbYnahYDHbKMgQk0HP8aBy7SWCoji37Pwt thtb7jCcNOtsMetutVcLh9upQSJv4PFCn2bsvJ9UIc82NPbgokjwlPWytkSK.kSei60UCqnOBwuo uf2QQtG6_LkQWY9hdLxwK33UQ2WitHfvwvz93Fs7fJJdx52nyK7IjFMsdRofKMMCPQ2xvt0PjgpR I5KRpjnf_9h2xFAEiW8yVfbRJQ2O.bMA3HOwVlC.vrHWicOx5tLSsm_A6LZoVjebneqCqPXzpeNj 1NyxqhWGtvz5fc_wUzYnOs63k3biy_1RlzUlEeHd8dOhH2NOXwLpJ0313lH2iQU792F32xJgcC6t ZiJvL_k8Q0taLsJJB977QAOUH.C9zZaofTXXp_w4ITvgnOcendBwxlJvLNqtAi.ai_O16Gjac3X9 mTlKgH2jO3wyoZfC1G7AzFLY42dhyy3YcwGDfR1nvjJ25yMG2O2Orb6qLA495iA.qxafPH0PXFz1 Rr8HxoHbcNmJRhRjzvQwZEwZz7qOiGbQ46soEBGYBh97gcJ8j9b2yd6yHeToBxIB6pVz.zdDB2M3 W_KcQ.f59QcNWSt3cX4ex5T6YD2BAaLMDjkzp7B5fgpp1RLM_iqWPtzueOKGPA2SjNN.NL2J34y2 jgFAxqe91KWFsBVuoivpsaXEX Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:05 +0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Robert Huff , David Christensen , FreeBSD Mailing List Message-ID: <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CF0B18C410 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.21 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.94)[0.944,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.999,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.989,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[146.190.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.29)[ip: (4.23), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:09 -0000 =20 On Monday, July 22, 2019, 3:26:37 PM EDT, Aryeh Friedman wrote: =20 =20 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Pathiakis wrote= : > > On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:01:25 PM EDT, Robert Huff > wrote: > > > > Aryeh Friedman writes: > > >=C2=A0 > You need an uninterruptible power supply (UPS): > >=C2=A0 > > >=C2=A0 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply > > > >=C2=A0 Already on my shopping list but half the problem is the machine i= s > >=C2=A0 a name HP and looking at the specs I have likely put more demand = on > >=C2=A0 the power supply then I can supply if there any drop in voltage. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I'd be interested to hear how you do this ... but assuming i= t's > true your solution has two parts: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) the UPS to deal with the "power hiccups".=C2=A0 Before yo= u buy, > check ports/sysutils to see what models are covered by available > software. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) a more vigorous internal power supply.=C2=A0 I have no id= ea if it's > even possible to upgrade HP products short of having HP do it (and > maybe not even then). > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Respectfully, > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Robert Huff > > > > ## Adding to this.... > > If this is more than just a low end server, you may want to buy a UPS wit= h > a pure sine wave vs a simulated sine wave.=C2=A0 They are=C2=A0 a little = more > expensive, but tend to be better in controlling spikes/dirty power. > > As for a new desktop, if you're reasonably inclined, build your own.=C2= =A0 At > this point in time, steer clear of Intel and look at AMD's products. Thei= r > new Ryzen 3000 series kicks butt and is about 50-75% of the cost.=C2=A0 G= o with > an X570 motherboard (it has PCIe 4.0) and an AM4 socket. The compatibilit= y > with the AM4 socket looks to be good for about 3-4 years vs intel's "new > cpu new socket -> new motherboard" mentality.=C2=A0 Depending on your gra= phics > needs either a separate card that can be upgraded or go with the new AMD > Ryzen/Navi APUs with the graphics in the chip... (low end but good for wo= rd > processing, etc NOT gaming - separate card if you game).=C2=A0 With the n= ew AM4 > socket the APUs are an inexpensive alternative to buying separate graphic= s > and CPU and when you go beyond the abilities on either just buy the lates= t > APU. > > Typically, the new Ryzen chips also consume about 1/3 less power too. > > So, for about $500 you can buy a SERIOUS powered machine with an upgrade > path versus being locked into a canned vendor like Dell or HP. > Here is what I have in mind so far (note I *REFUSE* to buy mail order/online so this is what is in my local MicroCenter): CPU (Ryzen 3600 $200.00 65 watts w/ fan): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=3Dall&sortby=3Dm= atch&N=3D4294966995+4294819840+4294810797+4294819827+4294818783+4294815097&= myStore=3Dtrue Motherboard (x570 AMD 4 ATX $170): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=3Dall&sortby=3Dm= atch&N=3D4294966996+4294810816+4294818900+4294818892+4294810798+4294817766+= 4294818045+4294818894+4294810687+4294815404+4294818877+4294815402+39&myStor= e=3Dtrue Power supply (850 watt $130 ATX): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=3Dall&sortby=3Dm= atch&N=3D4294966654+4294818900+795+4294817377+780+4294817027&myStore=3Dtrue Case (minitower ATX $75): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=3Dall&sortby=3Dm= atch&N=3D4294964318+4294821211+4294821002+4294811319+749+4294821195+4294821= 206+4294821207&myStore=3Dtrue RAM (16 GB DDR4-3200 $70): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=3Dall&sortby=3Dm= atch&N=3D4294966965+4294817445+4294820310+37&myStore=3Dtrue Reuse keyboard/mouse/video card/monitor Total: $645 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org ##=C2=A0 Personally I agree with everything you have here.=C2=A0 MB maker i= s a preference so I'm not spouting mine. :) However, even when you settle on graphics and storage media, check the powe= r consumption.=C2=A0 I've been going lower and lower on my PSUs.=C2=A0 I'm = down to using 550-650W now and will, in time, probably, go lower but with a= higher efficiency something in the 80-Gold or higher. Also, you don't need to buy a PSU with 800W.=C2=A0 It's just overkill.=C2= =A0 Calculate (there's a lot of online calculators) how much your machine w= ill draw.=C2=A0 Take that and add 33%.=C2=A0 Otherwise, you're spending ext= ra money for nothing. I'm running an Nvidia 1070ti, AMD 2700X, 16 GB RAM, etc.=C2=A0 At the wall,= my peak seems to be only using about 430W (???).=C2=A0 Of course, my stora= ge is M.2 NVME... 1TB chip, so I really don't have a lot of draw anywhere o= n the box. As always, have fun with it. :D P. =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 23 15:31:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256E2AC4ED for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic314-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic314-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 826F796172 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:31:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: TK2MtJsVM1kb4xAxvM8rkLrJuUT8bEMiw.HNvMTyziSKBBUB0bFS1UXG9bCwJPx u.J4iOcDLo0deRK8vSDPsQBGlsuHky2RjC.v9aeDJVg5ek5eHfjaq2NoJBSKC1HzeCGO6Q0_TYKN c0ehBXSzKvbkUBnd4C5jsG3sXAU3sEBCUas6uAhsfRPppCcXwgEAzOdTXWfUhSqE2TlP41m6y0dU hVvytwJ._IG7AHAyX.SThUZ3AsOCtKmAE0BoaOoUsoRpqXwuu2ypm5iWwKKCrx7Kkt1RahGtEqKV CzNNFknkOApl.aChTeBu_qkr0O0inNqWRjdnWCfJyhgNFOn5WFEnGbsxyQFwuEPo_mUTezInbFsj r6dIOIWq0pzSnjEMR0jVrpyRffGZvPOxP41sbHUSI3EKKisa2UxY6Yj_0b53yCB_M1VCuqT.2F4r cpweF.j5QYAAuqdLPOZBQkpn8ihE9orS7bH9dGOHsVdOUWcTjOLN5dtzufFs3BVXCxATV7tTE6Zy i7D_tmVgkl0ZB52O.zg0sw60RcqgM_GdDtGcVdJVA1_np0WoZjhhPAuOGSno7WANc5HVi4U0uV7N 6mKMmryQxStj2c9G.tgZiIQi05yaJ9BDNRjMOdwGs8UvuPD9hjA9PkyakqXA5tow3BBqFAO5.i7X GQXt6ENvmE0ClCAwzeRAgqSklIerTAAvoIPFlrbsK.A1ad656mURBn6G2XFzljpH2rDNhKGTtSOy B1t.fb_NglKUf8GDCnPI_mcx9i7G7HGBRWlfSTqumCYjzU1tl4vng01XaXYuPYQMIE03cG7KKHiy KcD.pLjO7QdWl5zthj4ZZD9bfTAijAlTuBl6UTAQX7xu6I1UI8PwfLDMtKKSlK4LDrXi_pKSycdQ kCwz96TBYU0WDTh.nq_pVKHRLYee0GmbLxPwjrmL77lpZLPE54u_kL8rn7tQvJb0HeG0WFBHcdzm 6cElKsoY0Z2J9WvFz5MzoL52CgbIKVxguqNnpsGjIxwU9tJUW3ShXydxrPVgRHJAgp9Vh_vK0RQh zE2D3mTedZurvHhevHoG.6nBlVHjP0iWqruwBcv07q42FjoVv5MnTereDJ17VfsZaMTSo1ANw6Xo bP4qsIYOlzr3A1JOxZrY1W3_XRJI37QwsxIZYtDCsvvXUlBqJnfcYSOMjNYWJPblsmaR0hh1O.E. Rfr2hWiLcKtpt48rd4odvbkfKltA2SGsRG5gl4b95NYIQou9u9_eoyl2IuwsiOMw- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:31:22 +0000 Received: by smtp403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 55364e8e4d64e4468e6f5c34b0033280; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:31:21 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:31:26 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 826F796172 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.64 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.86)[-0.858,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(2.00)[ip: (6.04), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.27), asn: 34010(1.79), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.992,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[145.177.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:31:32 -0000 For a desktop PC I care most about the TDP value of the CPU/GPU, than about any other CPU/GPU value. On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:07:22 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >4. I use it as a replacement for my TV/cable (download/stream shows) Is hardware video acceleration a domain of FreeBSD apps? In the recent days I experimented for the very first time with hardware video acceleration on my Linux machine, just to notice that it works with mpv from command line, but actually _no_ web browser does support it. On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis wrote: >However, even when you settle on graphics and storage media, check the >power consumption.=C2=A0 I've been going lower and lower on my PSUs.=C2=A0= I'm >down to using 550-650W now and will, in time, probably, go lower but >with a higher efficiency something in the 80-Gold or higher. Also, you >don't need to buy a PSU with 800W.=C2=A0 It's just overkill.=C2=A0 Calcula= te >(there's a lot of online calculators) how much your machine will >draw.=C2=A0 Take that and add 33%.=C2=A0 Otherwise, you're spending extra = money >for nothing. I'm using a 600 W PSU for a machine that is probably less power consuming, than the hardware of the OP's links might consume, let alone that the power consumption is no reasonable value for the provided Ampere at the other side. I don't know if it's the mobo, the OS (Linux) or the PSU, while USB3 bus power is fine, USB2 bus power is a PITA. I need to use very short cables and sometimes even an active hub. I suspect the PSU. The reason that I didn't bought a PSU able to provide more Ampere was a question of money. I simply couldn't pay for another PSU. I would be careful when calculating real power consumption. What makes you think that adding 33% is a good value? The PSU does consume power on demand, it's better to have headroom. Power saving is done by avoiding oversized CPUs etc., resp. for "TV/cable (download/stream shows)" probably via hardware video acceleration, if available.