Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson <dyson> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns Message-ID: <199511120557.VAA24917@freefall.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <m0tEUdy-000J9mC@current> from "owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org" at Nov 11, 95 09:07:00 pm
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> > 3. A concern about things in FreeBSD that impact INN performance, or > force them to compile INN special for FreeBSD. They are talking > about MMAP support. Although some have stated in the mailing lists > that not using MMAP on FreeBSD doesn't have a penalty, these guys > are almost universally convinced that not using MMAP defeats the > purpose of all the RAM they bought or will yield slower performance > than some other system, probably because on a lot of other operating > systems this is very true. > There have been problems with this. If anyone is willing to work with me "intimately" on this -- including helping me track the problems down, let me know. I think that it should be better now in -current, but I need feedback. I probably know the VM system as well as anyone, but I don't have a user site to work directly with. I am very flexible, and generally very easy to work with -- this is a call for participation!!! > > They also cry out against further changes to executable headers and > password file formats. Changes made in these areas in the past > are not popular to these guys as it requires far to much work > to uprade accounts and such. They also don't like include > files changing around too much, because FreeBSD doesn't provide > ports for everything, and now code that used to compile may not > just because someone made something "tidy". Changes like this > in the name of POSIX are considered "stupid". > In general, I agree with this unless not changing (cleaning up) things will get in the way of progress in the future. > > > This whole area is a very religious issue (boy do I know) and > there are many people volunteering on FreeBSD that are very good at > working on particular things (like down in one specific part of > the kernel) and getting them to work instead on DOSEMU or > whatever the hot item is that month probably isn't practical (they > may hate doing it and go away). > I will work on (or fix) almost any part of the kernel if paid $$$ :-). > > 8. File creation (particularly directories) appears to be slow compared > to other BSD-like systems. They say the stats for INN and CNEWS > for articles processed per second are quite a bit lower than that > on some "other" systems. They say that file deletion seems to be > a bit slower than BSDI, but not by much. I think they are talking > 2.0.5 on this item, although one ISP was experimenting with 1026 SNAP. > I am working on this stuff right now. Give me benchmarks!!!! I'll do what I can. > > To me this didn't seem to important, but they mentioned it. > Listen to your customer... > I agree with this more than anyone thinks. I am my own customer. With my kernel hacker hat on -- things work great. But, when something stupid happens with the system in front of one of my customers -- it hurts (and at times pi**es me off big time.) On FreeBSD we try to stay out of the ivory tower, but sometimes we end up back there. > > That was just about it. Again, take it as the concerns of some people > who are using or would like to use FreeBSD, but see peril or limitations > lurking that they are not willing to justify or risk. We can't convert > everybody, but perhaps some of these issues are resolvable in the > near future. > Firstly, regarding performance issues (incl MMAP probs) send benchmarks &/or example code!!! Those are the things that get me to work on the problems the quickest!!! (Just saying innd doesnt work with MMAP does not help, even though it is better than not knowing there is a problem, I need test code that breaks.) We also need more people to help with certain kernel issues (Linux compat probs, for example.) Also, the 2.1 release has slowed us down alot. Question? I am looking at FS layering issues right now, is that less important than better Linux compat (e.g. their bogus 1k a.out offset thing?) If it is, I can make lots of progress quickly on that. Hmm... maybe we have a prioritization problem??? STREAM OF CONCIOUSNESS: do we need to discuss in general the priorities of things that our user base needs??? John dyson@freebsd.org
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