From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG  Thu Aug  2 12:54:49 2012
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95330106564A;
	Thu,  2 Aug 2012 12:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from theraven@theravensnest.org)
Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27])
	by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575A98FC22;
	Thu,  2 Aug 2012 12:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk (c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.18.120])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q72Csbic078991
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
	Thu, 2 Aug 2012 12:54:38 GMT
	(envelope-from theraven@theravensnest.org)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
From: David Chisnall <theraven@theravensnest.org>
In-Reply-To: <501A0258.4010101@FreeBSD.org>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:54:35 +0100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <CA622462-DB69-40E4-9E1D-A4D83AEB12F8@theravensnest.org>
References: <CACqU3MUh1XPScRHNc-ivOYLmbG0_UqpwBNWeoPA84uSOESH_bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ-FndCHxpTfc+b5zgiX2NheaQN1LcJXBRubef4_GAYCy_pb2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACqU3MWo=ieaduuwZDF6SfzUUS5y1qzP5e2Ddg6Aphnz_O2PJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ-FndCDpD3rnQFwiOSGofP9cPCxC5Zo+PLfxALY8pnE=2HQMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACqU3MW2JEtDK0Ngdf_Br6D+VvdU1B9LmN0fm0F9=bG0f2iW4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ-VmomhHxG8t9Sw7de+zUnbz0O5GSY4ifpHFtCb9JS_zS0rBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACqU3MUKGcy8rNz0FcZLVat49BmRLD3hVKX+OXxkzwRDugKtAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com>
	<CACqU3MU-WyNFf5UZGx15m_HWBx_6W272qkfqHHJ8G7v+JCK2Sw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FAE07410-CA99-4061-856F-799DB9D225BE@bsdimp.com>
	<501A0258.4010101@FreeBSD.org>
To: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 12:58:29 +0000
Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org,
	Arnaud Lacombe <lacombar@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..]
X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD
	<freebsd-hackers.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>, 
	<mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>,
	<mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 12:54:49 -0000

On 2 Aug 2012, at 05:30, Doug Barton wrote:

> I used to ask the PTB to provide *some* form of remote participation =
for
> even a fraction of the events at the dev summit. I don't bother asking
> anymore because year after year my requests were met with any of:
> indifference, hostility, shrugged shoulders (that's a hard problem =
that
> we can't solve), or embarrassment. Since if the right people around =
here
> want something to happen, it happens; I finally came to the conclusion
> that they didn't want remote participation to happen, so it won't.
> That's a shame.

You haven't asked for this for the Cambridge DevSummit, but others have =
and so we have arranged for cameras and microphones to be available for =
two of the sessions (the DocSummit and the ARM working group) to allow =
those who can not attend in person for various reasons to participate. =20=


I don't know how useful it will be (hopefully everything will work, but =
my experience with video conferencing is that it stops working as soon =
as you try to do something important with it), but there is certainly no =
active attempt to exclude people who can't attend. =20

After each DevSummit, the results seem to appear on the wiki quite =
promptly - often during the sessions.  At BSDCan this year, two of the =
working groups that I attended used OpenEtherPad to take minutes, so =
they were available in real time for non-attendees and people outside of =
the room were able to add things to them.  There are usually people in =
the room on IRC as well, who are willing to relay things from people =
outside.

David=