From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 19 18:31:46 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6048165C39D for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:31:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ezekielmotta017@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GT9RP514hz4s3R for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:31:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ezekielmotta017@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id p22so29252760yba.7 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:31:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U+TgFvMHdFScDxEs33lf6wox8GV+Z8VpmkUgnaSY7tI=; b=j6+8W/JBtrES/CMiI/CQ1vlr1FgdK2e6ie7Cc7d3TBm1n9O/zO57F49UDtIChEyerB +cz/8rE1QGa/isxlV/f9+9GE9akL2S66Hg12+21eIB394K+nX1Cv+/g2g9T9isuznTO4 9Ea2PDZ9jQiZ/rt8TP46jDkanYynP+PKwUnFQCQoptXjQqSqfVwSpJAmt5WrmqgkI6fw 6D7CRqeo8CJxkfjdzV8OdFJZuBPQR8NNA2y9w1uwaLEAoY4UtKufEQ9l78AiEYjzSZWU U9SW0iEURG70f1N/nPOgbk4Y6neXPL0ZPYkZ75I8SuQbr+TrtnwVQlUjmG+QOTchLyZO PpRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U+TgFvMHdFScDxEs33lf6wox8GV+Z8VpmkUgnaSY7tI=; b=dYIo2dDW+/blLl6mSXjORyl4e+kfjqdFf7DBq/z91iHav2pfM2TKlnIsMFQ6bxJ3RN wX/Fi/q28nHNdDqgLP91kAP5zDQB6M4tsdKGzMk8o2rhcfWfl6SxPqb7llUlL9Fpub/+ 4I6e/W4jWznD5I9N1KCfz4k82TiKKgBNMlVX+GpT9kq7qi7kbgyH1NOt30zJmYvKe99P NqPHa0t9l4emF+WM/jChsI0j6W9KPEe9zZNs+hquATKBf6yKO4CZ8vYE9e7BMgg0Xfg0 3Wv7esg9L07NqRgsKgX8uzLM9FlP3/ern0CjV5zfu9ch1NxuDR2LUhs0lNzQk32lG5as +N8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531LuiNXzyyin84qBPnp5PfCWKHQkQtVS8y4k+pp34zUJCPK4LvR 6EI1Ux69Jvt8VaHveIuQDT1CaYZZBIrEH6T7Vhoq3Xv4rp8rQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmSOyz6fXytVWBVXc2/OiB2Ypdz51gkmQd3OQ1JkVuQuI0dIS9ROo3Z+H+JZP3RT1X9nltVoxyFUqfDUN8yR0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7647:: with SMTP id r68mr33091494ybc.432.1626719504334; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:31:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: ezekiel motta Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:31:33 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD To: Alejandro Imass Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4GT9RP514hz4s3R X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=j6+8W/JB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ezekielmotta017@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ezekielmotta017@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.05 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.98)[0.976]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.973]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:36:28 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:31:46 -0000 I agree, Alejandro. They do contribute to the community. The remora keeps the shark clean of aquatic bugs and is a pleasant companion. LOL It is a symbiosis in an ecosystem. Even Leopards give back to the community= . Only some/many humans are the exception to this rule. I am going to use NomadBSD on hard metal. Maybe I should not have used the word parasitical. The very fact that they make DE's for FreeBSD is a great contribution. Had they not made the contribution, I would not use FreeBSD. I really did not mean to offend anybody. As I said, my pref is purely technical. This is an interesting case that shows how copyright actually distorts matters. Imagine I create a DE for FreeBSD and call it AlphaX On distrowatch it would say: AlphaX is based on FreeBSD despite the fact that AlphaX's code would be 97% FreeBSD and 3% my code. In reality, my DE would be an addition to FreeBSD. A meagre, minimal, addition. Hence, saying AlphaX is based on FreeBSD does not quite capture it. It should be called FreeBSD/AlphaX DE However, since I can not use the name FreeBSD (for legal reasons) I can not be honest. I would have to call it AlphaX and say that it is based on FreeBSD when, in reality, it is FreeBSD with my meagre addition. Imagine I take a Peugeot 205 rally car, change the inside, change the instrumentation and call it ZeeMobile. See what I am getting at? Well, apologies for the use of the word parasitical. I am just someone who is interested in technology. Greetings everyone, Kind regards and thanks to the FreeBSD Foundation. I really like the manner in which the Foundation combines two venerable principles: democracy and aristocracy. Z On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 6:09 PM Alejandro Imass wrote= : > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 1:22 PM ezekiel motta > wrote: > >> Precisely. Apple is parasitical, but so is everyone else. Google's use o= f >> Linux, Torvald's use of Unix, Ubuntu's use of Debian, PopOS use of Ubunt= u, >> Manjaro's use of Arch, ad infinitum. >> There is nothing morally repugnant about it, just as there is nothing >> repugnant about the remora's behaviour vis a vis the shark. >> I did not mean it as a moralistic comment. >> >> > Parasitical usually means all take and no give back which IMHO is very > well represented by Oracle and their CEO actually saying it out aloud: > "Larry Ellison: =E2=80=9CIf an Open Source Product Gets Good Enough, We= =E2=80=99ll Simply > Take It.=E2=80=9D Most everyone else you mentioned above has given a lot = of value > to their original projects. For example, Ubuntu has probably given more t= o > Debian than people might realize. E.g. If you have a hardware issue in > Debian, you will probably find the answer in an Ubuntu forum or mailing > list, and most of the time, these patches make their way back to Debian > and/or the Linux kernel. > > I think derived works and/or forks are more of an ecosystem model than > parasitical. There are some notable exceptions, but in general I think th= at > most who fork, will happily give back to their upstream. > > Back to FreeBSD, IMO the Desktop is definitively not the focus, although > there are many hard-core FBSD users who use it as a workstation. > > The opportunity is there, especially with FBSD's licencing, but I think i= t > requires some financial benefit to make it worthwhile to invest in the > arduous process of maintaining workstation type software, and convincing > partners to join your cause, for example basic stuff like Skype or Zoom. > > IIRC iXsystems tried this with TrueOS, I am guessing inspired by their > success with FreeNAS, but eventually killed the project: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS > > IMO (and this is not criticism) the core FreeBSD is not really interested > in the applications of FreeBSD as such but more to maintain the original > and purest possible form of Unix remaining on the planet. That is why I > don't see *BSD projects as parasitical at all, but rather focused > implementations / applications of FreeBSD. > > Best, > > -- > Alejandro Imass > > > > > > > > > > > > > >