From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 14 21:04:11 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86BFDFD6; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5025F2DD9; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAEL48uY029102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:04:08 -0600 Received: from LTCFISWMSGMB21.FNFIS.com ([169.254.1.152]) by LTCFISWMSGHT06.FNFIS.com ([10.132.206.17]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:04:07 -0600 From: "Teske, Devin" To: Steven Hartland Subject: Re: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall Thread-Topic: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall Thread-Index: AQHO4WP56r1WdCmD2k+in4awofQcqw== Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:07 +0000 Message-ID: <9A38EBE3-4012-4165-8655-03330277B04A@fisglobal.com> References: <20131114173423.GA21761@blazingdot.com> <59A9B68B-4134-4217-83F3-B99759174EFE@fisglobal.com> <5285148E.6020903@allanjude.com> <3D3332FA-0ABF-4573-8E65-4E7FBB37100B@fisglobal.com> <1384462198.13183.47596065.6F8E7BCD@webmail.messagingengine.com> <0CBA81A49FFC447C9452C9A27BC2D017@multiplay.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0CBA81A49FFC447C9452C9A27BC2D017@multiplay.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.132.253.120] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <080B0D740B5A8446A9B20B62862843D2@fisglobal.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-11-14_07:2013-11-13,2013-11-14,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-fs , Devin Teske , "Teske, Devin" , Allan Jude X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:04:11 -0000 On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Steven Hartland wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Felder" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:49 PM > Subject: Re: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall >=20 >=20 >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013, at 12:35, Teske, Devin wrote: >>> I have never heard a good argument for having atime on. The performance >>> penalty on ZFS is quite large, and it also makes your snapshots grow >>> constant. If you have a use for it, you can turn it on I guess. This >>> would be solved by having the dataset editor we're planning for 10.1 >> POLA and POSIX, even though it was a bad decision to invent atime :-) >> We've never turned atime off before and it would be a huge surprise to >> me, so I'd avocate that we let the admins who know what they're doing >> turn it off. I know many Linux distros install with noatime and/or >> nodiratime, but I'm 99% sure tools don't create filesystems with atime >> flagged to be off by default (tune2fs -O noatime). We don't even do inst= alls on UFS with atime disabled by default in fstab >> so why should we so suddenly change course for ZFS? >=20 > While I can see the reason some would argue to keep it on by default > I personally think this is a good change. >=20 > Why punish everyone forever due to poor design decision made in the dista= nt > past, just because a few select applications make use of said feature? >=20 > Is not a change which benefits the masses but comes with a slight > inconvenience of the select few, where they need to enable a feature > no one else needs a good idea? >=20 > Sure it needs to be clearly messaged so its not a surprise, but if thats > done I'm all for it. >=20 Sounds like a vote for enabling it where-needed by-default (e.g., /var as a= whole or more selectively, /var/mail) --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.