From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 21 13:07:31 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 166A11065672; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:07:31 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:07:31 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20101021130730.GA72290@freebsd.org> References: <201009161742.24228.tijl@coosemans.org> <201009161619.o8GGJAmv035378@lurza.secnetix.de> <20101018155944.GA12425@freebsd.org> <868w1r92rf.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20101021122110.GA65490@freebsd.org> <86zku77mj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <86zku77mj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mav@freebsd.org, Tijl Coosemans , Oliver Fromme Subject: Re: Summary: Re: Spin down HDD after disk sync or before power off X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:07:31 -0000 On Thu Oct 21 10, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Alexander Best writes: > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: > > > No. Where did you get that idea? To repeat what I've said before - > > > several times - in this thread, a modern disk drive can handle hundreds > > > of thousands of controlled unloads but only a few hundred emergency > > > unloads. Given the choice between "never spin down" and "always spin > > > down", the safe alternative is "always spin down". > > atacontrol(8) says that: > > > > "You should not set a spindown timeout on a disk with / or syslog logging > > on it as the disk will be worn out spinning down and up all the time." > > > > this seems to indicate that spinning down a disk has quite an impact. > > The problem with setting a short idle timeout is that, on a typical > laptop or desktop system, you end up spinning the disk down and back up > several hundred times a day, which increases power consumption, I/O > latency and wear. > > However, a single emergency unload (what happens when the disk loses > power without first unloading the head) shortens the disk's life > expectancy as much as hundreds or thousands of controlled unloads. > > Unless you think our users commonly reboot their computers hundreds or > thousands of times between each time they cycle the power, the safe > alternative is to *always* spin down during shutdown. > > I truly hope this is the *last* time I have to repeat this. It's really > not that hard to understand. no need to get upset. you asked where i found the information regarding the wear impact of spinning down disks and i gave you the answer. i totally agree with you on this issue. yet again: is it worth changing this for the ata(4) sub system which will probably become obsolete in one or two years? the ata(4) subsytem exists since FreeBSD 4.0. why introduce this change now that it's going to die soon? also as i pointed out in my earlier post, spinning down disks already caused problems with the aac controller. since not a lot of testing went into the spin down code one can expect more controller related issues to arise. cheers. alex > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no -- a13x