From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 23 17:52:50 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B081065745 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shuvaev@physik.uni-wuerzburg.de) Received: from mailrelay.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de (mailrelay.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.3.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950618FC1A for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:52:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shuvaev@physik.uni-wuerzburg.de) Received: from virusscan.mail (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay.mail (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609F9199134; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by virusscan.mail (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A4419912C; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de (wthp192.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.40.192]) by mailmaster.uni-wuerzburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A5019912B; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wep4035 ([132.187.37.35]) by mail.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Lotus Domino Release 8.0.2FP1HF244) with ESMTP id 2009062319524724-2409 ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:47 +0200 Received: by wep4035 (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:47 +0200 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:52:47 +0200 From: Alexey Shuvaev To: Thomas Abthorpe Message-ID: <20090623175247.GA65395@wep4035.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de> References: <200906181114.43935.tabthorpe@freebsd.org> <4A3B3524.7090606@FreeBSD.org> <200906191020.25037.tabthorpe@freebsd.org> <200906221948.31366.tabthorpe@freebsd.org> <4A4030FE.1020804@FreeBSD.org> <3f6a88120906230713kf44c826x928beea65adf6c0e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3f6a88120906230713kf44c826x928beea65adf6c0e@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Universitaet Wuerzburg User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on domino1/uni-wuerzburg(Release 8.0.2FP1HF244 | April 7, 2009) at 06/23/2009 07:52:47 PM, Serialize by Router on domino1/uni-wuerzburg(Release 8.0.2FP1HF244 | April 7, 2009) at 06/23/2009 07:52:47 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at uni-wuerzburg.de Cc: Doug Barton , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] New category proposal, i18n X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:52:50 -0000 On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13:48AM -0400, Thomas Abthorpe wrote: > 2009/6/23 Chris Rees : > > 2009/6/23 Doug Barton : > >> Thomas Abthorpe wrote: > >>> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I = stand by > >>> my original proposal of i18n. > >> > >> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the > >> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then > >> "internationalization" would be the better choice. > >> > >> Doug > >> > > > > I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and > > typing 'in' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers > > in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up > > i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately > > descriptive. > > Hard to achive... x11-wm, x11-fm, audio vs. multimedia, ... > > Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of > > a pain for them! > > Unrelated problem. head -50 test.c kill -s KILL 46129 man 3 printf mount /dev/da0a mnt/ I think you can't avoid using numbers in command-line. BTW, numbers are much better than spaces or localized characters: '=D0=9C=D0=BE=D0=B8 =D0=B4=D0=BE=D0=BA=D1=83=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D1=8B'= ( =3D=3D 'My Documents') > > Chris > > > > >=20 > You have struck a chord with numbers in the path, reminds me of the > pre-Xorg days with /usr/X11R6, not sure what I disliked more, the > capital letters or the numbers! >=20 > I hereby relent, and yield to the logic of the arguments placed before > me, I now agree that using internationalization for the category name > is a better idea. >=20 Well, if the new category supposed to be real, I don't like 'internationalization' name. The reason? Very simple. For now I get: ~> ls /usr/ports/ CHANGES archivers finance misc shells COPYRIGHT astro french multimedia sysutils GIDs audio ftp net textproc INDEX-8 benchmarks games net-im ukrainian KNOBS biology german net-mgmt vietnamese LEGAL cad graphics net-p2p www MOVED chinese hebrew news x11 Makefile comms hungarian packages x11-clocks Mk converters irc palm x11-drivers README databases japanese polish x11-fm Templates deskutils java ports-mgmt x11-fonts Tools devel korean portuguese x11-servers UIDs distfiles lang print x11-themes UPDATING dns mail russian x11-toolkits accessibility editors math science x11-wm arabic emulators mbone security which fits fine in one 80x25 terminal window. With the new category: ~> ls /usr/ports/ CHANGES devel net-p2p COPYRIGHT distfiles news GIDs dns packages INDEX-8 editors palm KNOBS emulators polish LEGAL finance ports-mgmt MOVED french portuguese Makefile ftp print Mk games russian README german science Templates graphics security Tools hebrew shells UIDs hungarian sysutils UPDATING internationalization textproc accessibility irc ukrainian arabic japanese vietnamese archivers java www astro korean x11 audio lang x11-clocks benchmarks mail x11-drivers biology math x11-fm cad mbone x11-fonts chinese misc x11-servers comms multimedia x11-themes converters net x11-toolkits databases net-im x11-wm deskutils net-mgmt which is too long. You need to scroll to see the whole content of the folder. About the topic: from http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055424.html > It is my intention for ports that do localization related work > would remain in their existing category, and if appropriate > we could add the new name to CATEGORIES. from: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055463.html > To paraphrase a couple of key points > > "Localization refers to the adaptation of a product, application > or document content to meet the language, cultural and other requirements > of a specific target market (a "locale")." > > ... > > "Internationalization is the design and development of a product, > application or document content that enables easy localization > for target audiences that vary in culture, region, or language." > > To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, > I stand by my original proposal of i18n. >From the above my conclusion is, if gettext stays in devel and kde3-i18n-ca goes to new category, this new category is for *localized* versions of different applications but not for tools that help doing *internationalization*. In any case (I mean the name of the new category), given that some ports will go into it and some will stay in their current categories I think the new category should be virtual, not real. 0.02$, Alexey.