From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 10 06:50:45 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D6CE6CAC8 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:50:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (mail.karels.net [216.160.39.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09611C45 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:50:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.karels.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w0A6OikT079235; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 00:24:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Message-Id: <201801100624.w0A6OikT079235@mail.karels.net> To: Warner Losh cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" From: Mike Karels Reply-to: mike@karels.net Subject: Re: To be retired soon... In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 09 Jan 2018 20:52:30 -0700. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <79233.1515565484.1@mail.karels.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 00:24:44 -0600 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:50:45 -0000 > About 18 months ago, there was a thread that talked about retiring older > storage devices and some ISA devices that have outlived their usefulness. > Here's the list that John Baldwin posted. > - Older storage adapters: > - aha (ISA) > - adv (ISA / PCI) > - adw (PCI)? > - bt (ISA / PCI) > - aic (ISA / PCCard) > - dpt (ISA / PCI) > - ncv (PCCard / PCI) > - nsp (PCCard) > - stg (ISA / PCCard / PCI) > - mse(4) (ISA-only non-PS-2, non-serial mouse) > - joy(4) (ISA-only, was on various Sound Cards, etc., but I haven't seen > a "game port" on a modern box in a long while) > I plan on marking these drivers with a new API ( > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D13818) in the coming days saying they will be > removed in 12.x (meaning not in 12.0 or later). Man pages will be updated > as well. I then plan to MFC all this code to 11 shortly after. Current > users will start to receive warnings. I get that we should have done this > sooner given our loosely observed deprecation practices in the past, but > we're doing it now (which beats how we've done this in the past, which is > why I'm adding the gone_in() to allow things we plan on retiring in 13 > before 12-stable is branched). In about a month (sometime after Feb 15th), > I plan on removing these from FreeBSD, absent any actual users reporting > that recent FreeBSD 12 systems work. There are a number of special cases in > CAM that be removed once these are gone, as well as code that's only used > by these drivers. > I've spoken to Scott Long about these drivers, and he's 100% on-board with > retiring them. As far as he knows, the only parallel SCSI driver that works > is mpt with LSI 2x320 cards, so these cards are (a) too slow to even be > remotely relevant (b) have all kinds of problems that haven't been resolved > in 5-ish years of reports of malfunction. mse/joy are also at least 15 > years past their even marginal relevance. > Comments? > Warner Agreed. But for the future, note that mpt is used in VMware ESXi emulation when FreeBSD/amd64 is selected (I think also for i386). VMware tends to emulate rather old hardware. We should retain drivers commonly used in virtual environments too. Mike