From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 03:59:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F82E815 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:59:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F157871 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:59:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so3140843vbi.18 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:59:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemm.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XD/wtNEV1oI9lb/T2js0IBWAGCIgqSfaw5dxXOYKt8k=; b=BkLPwvVeBLpdFKja2ejNkZ23Owixz11H+x3kA8wzL0+EV4eLsJ2OuPNLY4ZYtXhvQ4 7151qb8cm58BGnm1kuZCe63rqZcO25DKzHEW7Zqbs8b3e6lYWllyAcOqnYPVvk5WAaM/ IAEbY4T1EMmkUsNStCyQDbSXdjBhvVZUheIMU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=XD/wtNEV1oI9lb/T2js0IBWAGCIgqSfaw5dxXOYKt8k=; b=lkmP4lN/60SG1kFkpKJRovto6YWzwe4qs0+ktrEfMPIgLeKUj5DR7WaemNqMuyGi07 Yn7h20eEh3zA7VOHfi1mGf6/v3OF7Zd7SWXgnjI+E72o7xhW/82G2qzy01X143N+eXhR 2Cx3eXkmABMOGkblGgQE7nPJqdrmLweeFh85aIa8LEjFCTsGC/r71fIspd7Fpyt9Oiid QJ/0VE4sSrSs1gtCPZ+NMXhvhS/ThrfjjJ9bySyCvHFgNp/y7vBC9Yc8OePLF2nR20lD a3ss1XlfFHHalMbMGaZ9GvQC6k1tqGg0duu3KkxXsGy8uxhmb6yrblaRnm3hTxGE8+ly skhQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.134.16 with SMTP id pg16mr19909075veb.12.1358135941707; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.174.135 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:59:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1358132522-7259997.45478983.fr0E31thR008892@rs149.luxsci.com> References: <20130112233147.GK1410@funkthat.com> <20130113014242.GA61609@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20130113053725.GL1410@funkthat.com> <20130113202952.GO1410@funkthat.com> <20130113224800.GS1410@funkthat.com> <50F33B02.6040303@freebsd.org> <1358132522-7259997.45478983.fr0E31thR008892@rs149.luxsci.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:59:01 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: how long to keep support for gcc on x86? From: Peter Wemm To: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYcFXRaIUcLoRoDGZebjQj0O1ZyLFMyy0V+IaYR6KR8WBdA2vr3uaivueBU7JUjQR0B+/V Cc: Adrian Chadd , Nathan Whitehorn , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:59:09 -0000 On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > On Jan 13, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Peter Wemm wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote= : >>> ... ? >>> >>> As an embedded platform, I'd expect that people will want to support >>> any feature which dramatically boosts performance whilst reducing CPU. >>> >>> Also, if Intel decide to keep trying to push low power x86 for mobile >>> applications, rather than ARM, x86 may just make a resurgence in >>> places you once thought were servers. >>> >>> 32 bit x86 isn't legacy and won't be for a long time to come. >> >> Our buildworld environment and embedded $everything isn't well known >> for being embedded friendly. > > IMHO, I believe the buildworld environment is quite friendly, but I don't= have anything except FreeBSD and OpenBSD to compare it to, > >> I'd wager that if somebody was trying to >> use an i386 kernel in an embedded device where every last thing >> counted, they'd be using an external toolchain targeted for their >> platform and some very selective cross-building. > > I'll take your wager- I'm one of those guys, lots of embedded FreeBSD on = tiny hardware- but I haven't been using any external toolchain or compiler. > > Your wager may still be rational, your case is plausable, but since 2004,= I (and dozens of colleagues/friends/hackers) happily been compiling FreeBS= D, using zero add-on tools. (I've used a lot of Soekris 4801 and 5501, and = ALIX alix2d3 embedded boards). Typical Kernel and world take approximately= 18+ hours to build on a 4801, depending on the kernel conf. > > Beyond Soekris and PcEngines, there is a glut of relevant industrial sing= le-board/embedded/funky hardware that is also 32 bit x86- some pretty amazi= ng gear, at varying levels of cost. Sure, but how many of these have the new AES-NI stuff? And even if they did, the default 10.x compiler would support it. --=20 Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV bitcoin:188ZjyYLFJiEheQZw4UtU27e2FMLmuRBUE