Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 21:04:11 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@freefall.cdrom.com> To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, nate@trout.sri.mt.net Subject: Re: NOTICE: If you care, speak now! Message-ID: <1947.797054651@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 21:23:21 CDT." <v02120b08aba77e0068f0@[199.183.109.242]>
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> I WANT to make a significant change to the way new systems get built. > The purpose is to reduce unnecessary recompilations, allow read-only source > trees, and prepare for cross-compilation. > > Is this something that the community will accept? Your support or > opposition is requested. Silence will be considered acceptance. Let me pick a general bone with you about this, Richard. For the last few months, you've talked in very grand and sweeping terms about the structure you've evolved, but no one else has really had a chance to truly react to any of the SPECIFICS of it because you don't actually have it RUNNING anywhere! So you send instead out these long missive and everyone goes "Hmmm. Sounds interesting. Sounds complex. I'd have to see it in action!" and then they put it aside. You get get frustrated at the total lack of feedback, everyone is frustrated with you for hearing a lot of fairly good sounding ideas but having no MEAT to chew on, and so it goes! If you're really serious about this, then before you commit *anything* you need to bring it up on a machine completely and totally so that others can run test builds with it and make comments. I'm sorry, but until I actually *KNOW* and can *SEE* your changes doing everything they're supposed to do on a real live box then I can't support them and I doubt that many others will step forward and do so either. If it's just the question of a box to work on, I think thud could be more than happily "sacrificed" to the cause. Nobody sups its /usr/src tree, and it can be torn down and recreated at a moment's notice if things get totally screwed up. OK? > I already have done much of it on my own system. The problem is that there > was too much "I don't want to do it that way" for me to feel that this > group could reach ANY standard. The entire Make system NEEDS to be redone. > The warts have overwelmed the substance. Everyone would benefit from a > cleaner system. "Make world" would become much faster because we have not > yet gotten to the case of true cross compilation. There is a lot of > unnecessary duplication because the source tree is being used to make both > tools and a target when they are, in fact, the same. There's no question that we could all benefit significantly from a cleaner environment, we just have to see it before we're going to "buy" it! You're otherwise asking us to accept major upheaval sight-unseen! :-) Jordan
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