From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 09:53:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D6D1065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:53:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2455E8FC12 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:53:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m639X7xj009769 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 164 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B19237190 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 987A130; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.164]); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:33:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7417/Tue Jun 10 03:14:29 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail2.jussieu.fr with ID 486C80B5.00B by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 486C80B5.00B/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 486C80B5.00B on jchkmail2.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.040 -> S=0.040 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:29:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:53:47 -0000 Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... Useless ... for you. Conversely, for me it is your drivel which is useless, and much worse harmful. The "full control" you are advocating is totally useless for almost everybody. On the other hand, while even well known FreeBSD developers concede that there are problems in the present installation (*) and packaging tools, and it is clear that these problems are harming FreeBSD adoption, there is a group of users, whose relative importance i don't know, but who are very vocal, and whose aim is to preserve the statu quo. What is lacking for FreeBSD is some sort of Ubuntu, which has built a great success on the solid basis of Debian, but working around the conservatism of the Debian nomenklatura. Maybe pcbsd will do the same, but is is not obvious at present. (*) even the author of said tools wrote from the beginning that these tools were quick hacks, not really adequate. The situation is much worse now, since the installation tool knows nothing about modern FreeBSD features, such as geom mirror, etc. , while the packaging tools, which worked OK with 5000 ports, show their limits with 18000 ports. -- Michel TALON