From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Wed May 23 22:19:09 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16037EEA85D; Wed, 23 May 2018 22:19:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29C5582156; Wed, 23 May 2018 22:19:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id Lc62f8Y4N5wO5Lc64fb0Kv; Wed, 23 May 2018 16:19:05 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=SJtsqtnH c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=VUJBJC2UJ8kA:10 a=y3olD_i8AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=JPvq4AXnckQ8xl7YyHMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=2GdgqtpztZvaxdPX1XqS:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79008691; Wed, 23 May 2018 15:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w4NMJ1tD067897; Wed, 23 May 2018 15:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id w4NMIxMA067892; Wed, 23 May 2018 15:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Brooks Davis cc: Eugene Grosbein , Cy Schubert , Stefan Esser , "rgrimes@freebsd.org" , Mark Linimon , Gleb Smirnoff , Sean Bruno , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "src-committers@freebsd.org" Subject: Deorbiting i386 (was: Re: svn commit: r333388 - in head: . share/man/man4 sys/confsys/dev/nxge sys/modules sys/modules/nxge tools/kerneldoc/subsys tools/toolstools/tools/nxge usr.sbin/bsdconfig/share) In-Reply-To: Message from Brooks Davis of "Wed, 23 May 2018 20:22:28 -0000." <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 15:18:59 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDq2nE+tVzdlsgbJHLVwo0ePptL/v8QkUvUODcIo00mWcUilORugEftHBEjH/yNg2vF0f/uzr6EzqdCwOz1VymCVAQr0dzBgB+fV7LtJK6j3ZlbfpMfB 2Ph5dxLuTm+udUl1jv95+6MydhStrKFKiq0qZZsdI0yi97bViTcdMLLJIbC6505x3Z+Bdu69kPVshbCWKxuFe1ywtEOD2B/UwBiDXgIkE3YLe/p9uZQwtuTv 3Lx5HN/UoeD+YuC6gNK5qqwjNjW5/0110JcbFI1S5kB4wMMVsFDtiIVZajwRoXKKxmVesg3s6ZQ4LPMcMOz8aXU6z56J9EkQtirzpowm8h+m1PjU99oAX8yY xnmlnCs0TVnKpQeAOn1UUqntcLk8it3Z4bPMv0N4KZNsPQuMLLayEG/+sIWZ+dKsEUAuH5Ln+vjxXA13oU63bw3ZpGOux+k+NiVets306p0x5mov7bI= X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 May 2018 22:43:42 +0000 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 22:19:09 -0000 In message <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>, Brooks Davis wr ites: > > > --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 02:53:16AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > 24.05.2018 2:30, Cy Schubert wrote: > >=20 > > > Except for old computers and old software that segfaults on 64-bit, how= > many people still use i386? > > >=20 > > > Full disclosure: I'd like to see i386 deorbited before I retire. > >=20 > > Plese don't. I routinely use FreeBSD11/i386 for cheap VPS hosts having le= > ss than 2G memory > > because amd64 has noticeable overhead. I even have ZFS-only i386 VPS, her= > e is live example with 1G only: > >=20 > > Mem: 10M Active, 69M Inact, 230M Wired, 685M Free > > ARC: 75M Total, 1953K MFU, 31M MRU, 172K Anon, 592K Header, 42M Other > > 3500K Compressed, 29M Uncompressed, 8.61:1 Ratio > > Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free > >=20 > > The VPS has only 20G of disk space and ZFS compression gives > > compressratio 2.22x for ports, 2.51x for src, 2.29x for obj > > and 1.95x for installed i386 system plus other software and data. > > I think we're quite a ways from being ready to axe i386. > > For VPS applications, we should probably get x32 support in place which > should give us the best of both worlds. > > That said, we either need to rev the i386 ABI to use a 64-bit time_t or > kill it in the not to distant future or we risk embedded systems failing > in place in 2038. If we assume a 15 year life for most equipment to > fail electrically or mechanically that says FreeBSD 13 shouldn't support > the current i386 ABI. Rereading this, I'm confused. FreeBSD 13? 2023? Either works for me, though 2023 is more reasonable and gives people more than enough time to migrate. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.