From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Apr 23 18:08:10 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4C65FB0CF for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 18:08:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FRj2K2Jp5z4vsP for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 18:08:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id ei1so6161133qvb.9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 11:08:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dojd/GxPfSyMsbUJBCAfvZPbsDSGPRmUSyDSCwGTgRs=; b=LOf4tpEyiVrTxWtmFwUULMQ4TA4OKrYjGyY66M/ieVoxFTA/ti7qNtPFA1englCBG9 pFNweWWGhRPB3VGQWPZYPvC2ReF+3RfKvTR5jBuoVQ86ghvqcC/QVdVtakH0gFHI3Vxl HikPXtEIhwOrYqUu+upFYQE2Bqdp4f/l73dkm6KwElOuqwXIi9ripbDycWHPgBR8uhnH tbYcQcDvdVrqXvFXZ0H2FEwcWVtHWXkYPQQ6d2peIK3UK3OOuM4Kb95xUKqvXPKgl/rs v9OjR4oxyLyUiEJ5NexfLM7kS0OxYTA01RffGuYdPSjLTLgQaMg1lgwyvy0LOKMlb+OP M0Hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dojd/GxPfSyMsbUJBCAfvZPbsDSGPRmUSyDSCwGTgRs=; b=PXr192qJ0ZUTGM4qVVJrudfPR7GrU2TbA2Mivbk3QHTX10m01xQJjy5LRFwCaYpQA3 6BN4NJkzUjKzWi+Ktto9ckBG2NQPTpPoP4A2affYDztHC0falZ/lRFLriwGKQSDnrThZ rHcBJbgCM6YieB4wNFONq7HhD4UfHJ0G5GPc2tMmYyCtj0wH1aai14bT+UebqHizdofu j9N/KrjrB33smt/Uk8mDLZS7VjUPfc9Gy+46V4y8LGFHFGD/2WcjeBdawStA22KvgrGg IyMua4ts8/3CEGqdlM/wLvhQTFLtBdc6+g6/heHbNwZzecFAyl7r6fsrLomqa8ryMtrA +oOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533gg7R0GRyWGxQuiOBjOQzWh+5Dl+CW4XHMed6a5t/cS1bhf2Rr ZHnE5xMRY5X4KNN4XzT7crJJLsUmPEQ7aL1I2YeglkgHM5wA1g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTvOwV7kXMbpblAAIXwly/DzKw/8xgQUWRpKQWeJ/WnvRCmnQfwL2Mz0hZfOq4+CFoXHmjhq39ULX6CBjQlCU= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:58e9:: with SMTP id di9mr5477404qvb.23.1619201288293; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 11:08:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0101bee2-ae7e-5ea5-b7be-4f35c3467d9e@klop.ws> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 12:07:57 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: 13.1 from main? To: Steve Wills Cc: FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FRj2K2Jp5z4vsP X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=LOf4tpEy; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 18:08:10 -0000 On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:35 AM Steve Wills wrote: > Hi, > > On 4/22/21 6:00 PM, Alan Somers wrote: > > Because we have a policy of never releasing anything even a little bit > > backwards-incompatible in a minor release. > > I believe we have made backwards incompatible changes in minor branches > in the fairly recent past, at least compiler changes and VM changes that > affected video drivers. But I'm not sure, please correct me if I'm wrong. > Userland guarantees are easier to achieve than private kernel interfaces. Compilers have been binary compatible always, though newer versions were pickier at times which caused some minor grief (though that had nothing to do with the video driver stuff). By and large, things are broadly compatible. in the minor releases. And that's a good thing since we need packages for fewer release trains. But it also means things can take longer to get into a release. It's a balancing act, really, that we set the balance for decades ago and we may benefit from a close re-examination to see if a different model would let us use resources better and/or deliver features more quickly. Warner