From owner-freebsd-questions Sat Apr 4 20:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23021 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22975 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wsanchez@mail.apple.com) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12952 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:46:21 -0800 Received: from [17.219.24.160] (wsanchez.apple.com [17.219.24.160]) by scv3.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08516 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:46:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199804050446.UAA08516@scv3.apple.com> Subject: FreeBSD and Rhapsody Date: Sat, 4 Apr 98 20:46:22 -0800 x-sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy- I'm having a hard time figuring out how one becomes a FreeBSD developer from your web site, so perhaps you guys can help me out. I work for Apple Computer, and as you may know, we're building this operating system with the code name Rhapsody. Rhapsody has a full BSD subsystem in it, and we'd like to get a relationship going with FreeBSD if the FreeBSD team is interested. Most of our BSD code comes from 4BSD Lite, which is a bit dated. Since last year, I've updated a lot of our user commands using NetBSD's sources. The decision to use NetBSD was pretty much arbitrary, although the fact that I can acces their code via CVS, and now can commit changes back in was a big influence. In any case, the BSD kernel guys at Apple usually use FreeBSD as a reference. This led to some small gotchas due to differences between NetBSD and FreeBSD, such as the fact that NetBSD lets you change mode bits on symlinks, which FreeBSD (I think) doesn't. So I had a little trouble with commands like cp, which tried to do this thing we don't support. I haven't gotten to the network and system commands and the libraries, where I think the biggest incompatibility problem lie, and the consensus is that I should look into using FreeBSD for those. There will be problems in any case, since we implement BSD over Mach, which makes commands like ps somewhat unique from other BSD's, but the goal is to minimize that. What I need to know is the degree that you would like to work together with Apple, if at all, in this regard. It's important that we be able to send our changes back upstream, since I believe that staying in sync with our source provider is more important than any competitive advantage that might buy us. UNIX is of little importance to Rhapsody from a market standpoint; there are plenty of good UNIX flavors that one can get for free; the value in Rhapsody lies elsewhere. But BSD *is* important for several reason, which I'm sure you appreciate. The key is we don't want to provide "a better UNIX", we just want to be compatible and play nice with other systems, and have all that functionality. To that end, we don't need to be unique, and cooperating with you guys would be much better. I tried a few times to get CVSup to work on Rhapsody, and I found it somewhat difficult, so I don't have that tool, although I could set up a FreeBSD box to do that. Currently I plan to use the Walnut Creek CDs, since that's more convenient. The question is how I would get changes back up to FreeBSD. CVS access would be ideal, and is our current arrangement with NetBSD. I understand that such access isn't easily granted, so I'm open to alternatives. I should mention that I'm really not all that interested in the merits of one BSD effort over the others. I'm a little surprised at the animosity between some developers toward the other groups, and don't really want to get involved in that debate, so don't tell me why the other guys stink, in case you are so inclined. I have no loyalties towards any one group. Ideally, we'd get the best of each, although I think we'll need a primary to keep things sane, and our kernel guys like FreeBSD. I believe that getting something set up that let us work together will be mutually beneficial. We can leverage the work you have done, and you can some paid developers to help with bugs. Thanks, -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message