From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 05:27:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46895EBB for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 05:27:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-f43.google.com (mail-qg0-f43.google.com [209.85.192.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01FD2BF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2014 05:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id q108so8732810qgd.16 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:27:43 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7rIRWDyGmxIR5gwBSv8724syd4fxu4hfKaqmPDh1JjM=; b=Hcltd0E7OkqCTDPOBqMsIOrRAVUUp2klrW4JC9j7AYoZlIhs5wjb05fQdcfEowYBge GvTXV0J6TM8dHNnTiTdMSBRwL4esvChXblMLxk2sfYPLtKXCjs1iKUxPIonLT3yQeq+n O1SnxzqQ5zuxj9FC/okbQfxN3m6AT883pTOQXgTNzJA5LGIRlyuMZGK5/g+1GmuwfvxH eGUfe+PjTzg0BR7H/MeHmgdC/4MheynGNQnc+v9FUc8/iEMKdUYF6UeEgU1sqCdViVew wvZ8j4IQdu3+9ECrKTfWoj8rtmLbLiBF9VmkrJMDaMp3dADJJpR/SIsEX4RNGEqeXWSO CNWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmrVrSdnIT3fsHFiXNHjINWe19tVBWROiJ50a0mO5x1OR/Ho7slES1B0199NBfC5FzFI5Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.102.116 with SMTP id v107mr89735022qge.68.1417492018716; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 19:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.85.179 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 19:46:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141202103847.564806a2@X220.alogt.com> References: <54777AB1.9010800@bluerosetech.com> <54779629.302@bluerosetech.com> <54789AF3.7090100@yahoo.com> <547AAC20.1050006@tridentusa.com> <20141202103847.564806a2@X220.alogt.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 22:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: UPS for FreeBSD From: Alejandro Imass To: Erich Dollansky Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: John Johnstone , FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 05:27:45 -0000 On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 12:39:24 -0500 > Alejandro Imass wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:33 AM, John Johnstone > > wrote: > > > > [...] > the average volage over a square is much higher than over a sine. If > the components are not designed for this, they will fail. You can see > this effect by connecting a light bulb to an UPS and switch mains off > an on again. The smaller the difference in brightness gets, the better > the UPS emulates a sine. Of course, the life time of the light bulb > gets reduced. > > Should not be a problem for any modern switching power supply. In fact the higher the RMS the more efficient it will operate. The RMS of the sine x/SQRT(2) of a square wave is just x, where x is the peak to peak voltage. The peak to peak of 120V is around 170V which is just fine for most switching power supplies which are rated for about 250V RMS. It _could_ be a bit of a problem is the UPS is for 240V but I have never personally seen one in a North American store. Besides any 240V UPS manufacturer would have to know this and honestly I don't really think that any UPS uses a square wave. I will be sure to test this with an oscilloscope when I finally buy the UPS that started this thread - I promise I will buy the cheapest one I find and post pictures of the output waveform ;-) [...] > This is the question. Most power supplies will be able to handle the > square waveform. Escpecially modern power supplies being able to handle > any voltage from 100 to 250V. > > Actually I was referring to another comment that suggested that HF harmonics from saw-tooth emulation or square wave "ring" could somehow affect the switching PS of a typical computer. I think this is unlikely because it will get filtered by the first rectification circuitry of the switching power supply (I am no expert and could be wrong and maybe some switching PS would be sensitive to this, but I really doubt it). HF does affect some transformers and linear equipment and still is very unlikely. [..] > It is the volume. When the cheaper UPSes appeared, their price > advantage was pretty minor. > > I wonder meanwhile if it is not cheaper to use an inverter used in > solar panel installations. At least for larger inverters, they have a > clear price advantage but require batteries which are not available at > the next corner shop. > The problem I think is the switch-over speed. It would be really cool to find UPS that use *any* external battery, and you could just use a car battery for example which is very reliable, durable and readily available. Best, -- Alejandro Imass