From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 27 17:50:56 2011 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG> Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7ECC1065672; Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:50:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rcm@fuzzwad.org) Received: from mail.volente.us (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:7:d47::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5D68FC1D; Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:50:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zombie.fuzzwad.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.volente.us (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pBRHothR067717; Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:50:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rcm@fuzzwad.org) Message-ID: <4EFA057E.4030500@fuzzwad.org> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:50:54 -0600 From: Ron McDowell <rcm@fuzzwad.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lawrence Stewart <lstewart@freebsd.org> References: <4EF904F2.4020109@FreeBSD.org> <4EF953ED.9060905@fuzzwad.org> <4EF9B09A.4070103@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4EF9B09A.4070103@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Removal of sysinstall from HEAD and lack of a post-install configuration tool X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current <freebsd-current.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current>, <mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-current@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current>, <mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:50:56 -0000 Lawrence Stewart wrote: > On 12/27/11 16:13, Ron McDowell wrote: >> Doug Barton wrote: >>> The story so far ... >>> >>> sysinstall was removed from HEAD in October. I (and others) objected on >>> the basis that at this time there is no replacement for the >>> post-install >>> configuration role that sysinstall played. More sysinstall components >>> were then removed. Then the old version of libdialog (which sysinstall >>> used) was removed. Thus at this point it's not possible to easily >>> restore sysinstall. >>> >>> So my question is, how much do you care? Is lack of that functionality >>> in HEAD something that we care about? >>> >>> >>> Doug >> >> We have around 90 web servers running 8.2p5 right now [and yes, I did >> update the lot on Christmas Eve but that's a different story] and they >> will not be upgraded to 9.0 until/unless the post-install functionality >> that was lost by the removal of sysinstall is reintegrated in some way. >> I also complained about it and was told in effect, "too bad." Everyone >> who commented said sysinstall caused more problems than it solved, >> although I've been using it for any system changes I needed that it was >> capable of doing for as long back as I can remember, and my first >> FreeBSD box was v2.2. >> >> I think removing any functionality that was in a previous release >> without providing an equal-or-better alternative is a bad idea, and that >> needs to be considered more carefully in the future. >> >> So this is not just a +1 vote, it's a +90. > > Sysintall is in 9 and will not be removed from the 9 branch. The > installer used on the release media has changed, but as far as I > understand, there is nothing stopping you from running sysinstall from > a installer shell or using it for post installation configuration. You're right. I stand corrected and am happy to see I'll be able to upgrade to 9.0 after -RELEASE. > Doug is only referring to the head branch (which will eventually in > ~18-24 months become the 10 branch), so you should be able to have the > best of both worlds with 9 i.e. try bsdinstall, fall back to > sysinstall when you find bugs or missing features (don't forget to > lodge bug reports for problems you find so that bsdinstall can be > improved). > > On the topic of Doug's actual question, I see minimal sense in > resurrecting sysinstall in head now. I would suggest it be done much > closer to (say, 6 months before) the 10.0 release cycle, if no > suitable post-installation configuration tool has materialised. > > In the meantime, cajole everyone who pops up saying "I really want > post installation configuration support" to get involved with writing > a bsdinstaller-like script (I think it should be completely separate > to bsdinstaller, but perhaps use the same backend shell script > functions/infrastructure) to do the job. I guess this is a good time for me to quit bitching, get off my butt, and contribute something back to a project I've been using daily for almost 20 years. Having done similar sysadm development work [way back] on Tandy Xenix, SCO Xenix/Unix, and Dell SVR4 Unix, this is an area where I actually might know enough to be useful. To that end, the first task I'm assigning myself is to poke around in bsdinstall/libdialog and see how they work. As a related question, is there a good primer somewhere about how to use SVN? I'm using csup at present. -- Ron McDowell San Antonio TX