From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 19 15:37:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB7316A402 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:37:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers.102a7e@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (dsl092-153-074.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.153.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8383943D6E for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:37:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers.102a7e@mired.org) Received: (qmail 83687 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Apr 2006 15:37:25 -0000 Received: by localhost.mired.org (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:37:22 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17478.22833.727876.432169@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:37:21 -0400 To: cokane@cokane.org In-Reply-To: <346a80220604190746n69a74a67te58599f743312cab@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060419040716.4F26116A45F@hub.freebsd.org> <20060419095207.GC19339@wjv.com> <44462C07.4030903@centtech.com> <444634C1.9080206@centtech.com> <346a80220604190746n69a74a67te58599f743312cab@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 19) "Constant Variable" XEmacs Lucid X-Primary-Address: mwm@mired.org X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`; h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.0.3 (Seattle Slew) From: Mike Meyer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Fancy rc startup style RFC X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:37:34 -0000 In <346a80220604190746n69a74a67te58599f743312cab@mail.gmail.com>, Coleman Kane typed: > On 4/19/06, Eric Anderson wrote: > > >>> Please do not use colors in rc. Escape-sequenced colors make > > >>> unacceptable assumptions about the user and syslogd strips > > >>> escape sequences anyway, so it would be of no use to logged > > >>> consoles. Serial consoles introduce other problems with buggy > > >>> escape handling in third-party terminal programs. A good text > > >>> layout and descriptive status messages do far more for clarity > > >>> and readability than any use of color ever can. > This point can be debated... Only the last point, and only because it involves a quantity that's very difficult to measure. > read some literature from Edward Tufte... I've read Tufte. I've gotten him to sign my copy of some of his books at his seminars. I wish (vehemently!) that more web authors would read Tufte. > colors are a good way to cram more "information" into a space without > actually compromising the capacity of that space. True, but that's not his point. His point is that the colors aren't always visible (another thing I wish more web authors were aware of). The text layout and status messages should work well in environments where the colors aren't visible, because there are times when that's the kind of environment they'll be in. That said, colors can make checking for exceptions much easier - if you can see them. So I don't have any problem with adding colors. However, they should be off by default (at least initially), and the messages and layout should be tested that way until they work well without colors. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.