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Date:      Mon, 5 May 1997 09:40:25 -0500 (EST)
From:      John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To:        Stefan Bethke <stefan@promo.de>
Cc:        www@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Subject:   Re: New Web design
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.96.970505085456.29300N-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu>
In-Reply-To: <l03010d00af929de10182@[194.45.188.81]>

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Ah, I should have read this message first!

On Sun, 4 May 1997, Stefan Bethke wrote:

> So, after a busy weekend (drum roll):
> http://www.promo.de/people/stefan/freebsd/home1/
> 
> A new home page for FreeBSD (2nd try).

[snip]

> Points for further discussion:
> - What topics should the navbar contain?

I've already given a fair amount of thought to this, and spent
some time analyzing the log file to determin the most frequenly
used sections of the website.  The categories I selected, which
you have duplicated represent the most to least used resources
(left to right).

> - Do we want to use a map, or individual images on the navbar?

To what extent do clients support client-side image maps?  A
server side map is out of the question unless we provide
different pages for lynx users.

Separate images take longer to download, but that problem will
diminish as http 1.1 comes into more common usage (and the apache
server gets upgraded...)

> - Further reorganization for different audiences (first time user, experienced
>   user, developer)?
> - Where to put: the Source Tree, cvsweb, and alike; I think this is neither
>   "documentation" nor "support"; maybe we want to add a section on "Developer
>   Info"?

We have support resources aimed at non-developer users and
sources aimed at developer-users, where `developer' refers to
*FreeBSD* development.  These two categories are curretly mixed
together under documentation and support.  To some extent this is
necessary because there is no clean line between the two and some
of the resources serve both, but we could probably group things a
little better.

Ultimately what you have to do is try out different arrangements
on unsuspecting individuals.  This is pretty easy to do: you just
make a little flip-book (paper!) where each page represents one
of the web pages--just headings, no content--the home page being
the top. Find some people and ask them "Where would you go to
find..."  They point at an item, you turn to the corresponding
page, they point again, etc.  Just record the trails.  It is
relatively easy to spot basic organizational problems in this
way.  It is a lot quicker than an electronic mock-up too since it
can be done at a moments notice just about anywhere--in a
cafeteria, hallway, bus...

The real problem is finding representative people to quiz. 
Another project I was involved in that used this method was a
public library so just about any random person on the street was
a good subject.  Unix users are few and far between by
comparison!

> While providing both additional languages (read: translation of the english
> pages) and local information is definitly worthwhile, it could easly grow
> into a maintainance nightmare.

Relative to the handbook, which has been most valiantly
translated into Japanese, the rest of the pages represent trivial
content by comparison.  Compared to the handbook, the content is
remarkably static as well.

I would like to see a clean architecture that would accomodate a
wholesale translation of the site from the home page on down.
This:

> I would suggest the following structure. A typical FreeBSD WWW server
> (including www.freebsd.org) provides one or more of:
> - http://www.XX.freebsd.org/en/ the English pages (what is now /)
> - http://www.XX.freebsd.org/YY/ other languages such as JP, DE, PO, or FR;
>     verbose translation of English version
> - http://www.XX.freebsd.org/ a link/redirect to the "preferred" language home
>     page on that server)
> - http://www.XX.freebsd.org/local/YY/ information local to country XX, in
>     language YY

looks good as an outside view of things but does not address how
the pages are built and maintained.  For example if not all pages
have been translated, links to those pages need to fall back on
the english versions.  You can do this sort of thing either at
the build stage, and have fully populated language trees, or with
server tricks. 

Another dimension is automatic language negotiation.  Apache
supports it, but how many browsers do? 

> The non-english pages are maintained by a group of native speakers, on a
> server local to them. The documents are distributed through CVSup, so that
> any FreeBSD Web server can provide any language version it wants.

Local information should certainly be provided by local mirrors,
but for translations of the core stuff, I would tend to favor a
unified repository and universal distribution.  Excluding the
handbook, the web pages don't really take up much space and I
doubt we will get more than a handful of translations.  It would
make partial site translations cleaner to implement and eleminate
the current mirror/language dependency.

The downside, of course, is the telecommute to the CVS repository
in California.  Heck, I'm just in Indiana and I sometimes can't
even get a usable connection to freefall!

Anyway, I'm in finals week now.  I need to tune out of this issue
until the end of the week....

-john




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