From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 12 22:55:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D57E23426 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5D466FBA for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 7A9D5E23423; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A448E23422 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x230.google.com (mail-io0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4781566FB8 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x230.google.com with SMTP id v36so43249262ioi.1 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:55:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=eGRJlPM9CRiSt2nHo2cCa1E+ib/D5VaUIidZXljPe8U=; b=aDtCkMh62JWrgICYBEKNgX29I8vl2jesJczkyiC6N1VOLsQPxDn4U1De/8RTuT8we/ oJYf3rDemKSywl99tByUkpd8ZEST0Zi2zLx1lRpU7snQl6lSif8d/NcT/qkcp+T8CK7x eDWtZo7UFWdynzTfBbvIs1Di0QTNnoI3HAtxDcfkBZ/CNz03BhMMkIhLrurP5dvYbSDN MmGMThsxRE5bCZE5XqU2Ta8qA7HjOuSQhq+aRtRQC/b73WdTneOLuLSlcKY83yaOUSpW jQEt2xUp3ygi+gOK7iQzbD5Eos/IT+pqDGEsc8KlbMyuZhUYgvhAeVLD2OX4wTgT9bcW BCag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eGRJlPM9CRiSt2nHo2cCa1E+ib/D5VaUIidZXljPe8U=; b=hGplk25x99TP+8GPQNcTIO3ZSYQO6v0ExFcKip4g/rAf/N8HjA7DcYGE6Ipehp7dMs RbcsgmYwghCpekrsvEWkLwpqY28fpR8+YYfyTIHqM2DLyhkAbpVFNk4cVzCpn1rsaUFy c07Zn0RyY64bIx151X0/PE5DZLRsV/Qu83sXeOpc1IoTJondEATTkBTTaOZ+3Hjoi/To jPUhPBlxAgmAfRX8/c7jJVtvkDEZOIu6NALrDVHWm+1G9V0g5//KyWGtHpey7gIJ69Re Zy12TPAxkmnek1D7CkZLyB6fajqv5kvJXeKk22zpTu6DHgL4ISk83ieETm51S7V9zsUU dmXA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhaC1/AC9UskOsYRQXeZvQTDl/37IKc7QmSZZrUuQwIBRIWuEYt uEGoXWd6+hsVA07O5GcNa8evZOheCqFt X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDdxf/X0LNAMdPRxCSODpaxnWHeFf+pAPBgYJ87JK3pMYAYzgfhjQGGClEScSv3BaIe6z825+/TZ/NJ01v6eD8= X-Received: by 10.107.41.138 with SMTP id p132mr25445664iop.282.1505256954359; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:55:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.10.71 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:60a7:d7e6:aef8:c203] In-Reply-To: References: <20170912184200.GD99742@gmail.com> <77524.1505242222@critter.freebsd.dk> <78909.1505251253@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:55:53 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lis7UsK8AjBZ7YkvyAKT3_ZvmtM Message-ID: Subject: Re: Removal of catman from base To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:55:55 -0000 On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > On Tue, 12 Sep 2017, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I'm pretty sure that SVR1 had catman and roff was an extra and somewhat >> pricey software package. >> > > The SVR1 (and 2) systems I had access to were all CTIX, and it shipped > with nroff/troff. And the 3B4000 & 3B2s I used later (SVR2 and later) also > had nroff/troff. > > Maybe you're thinking of ditroff (Device Independent Troff) that was sold > for gobs of $$$ through the AT&T Toolchest. Certainly none of the SVRx > machines I used shipped with ditroff. I don't even think ditroff was on > our 3B2 SVR3 source tapes. > > But I very clearly recall the absense of manpage source on that SVR3 tape. > I remember howling bloody murder at AT&T Canada over that. This was at > Athabasca University - a distance education institution. We typeset all > our own course materials (using Softquad's sqtroff), and not being able to > include properly typeset manpages with the course documentation (especially > reflecting our local modifications to the systems) made me ... grumpy. Back in school, our SunOS 3, SunOS 4 and VAX running BSD 4.{2,3} we had to run a special ditroff to use the Imagen laser printer. And it was a special deal that came with the printer to support document creation on the Unix boxes. I don't know if it was an extra cost item for the Imagen printer or not, but it wasn't part of the base system. Warner