From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Fri May 18 00:20:22 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FAAEE43FF for ; Fri, 18 May 2018 00:20:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@saltant.com) Received: from twaddle.saltant.net (twaddle.saltant.net [72.78.188.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E48D87CAEE; Fri, 18 May 2018 00:20:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@saltant.com) Received: from dither.saltant.net (dither.saltant.net [IPv6:2001:470:8d6f:1001::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by twaddle.saltant.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0174F1121C; Thu, 17 May 2018 20:20:20 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=saltant.com; s=twaddle; t=1526602821; bh=jgQ6twVQl1AcjaK1/D+dSzLHpzJklLkKgolUbMw8uqE=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=iLZEnco9NpplRe3D4coqt30pbopsnYoYo4gZBVsR0+xO7U20Xs4eH7FqO8TCHy8U5 kybIDKIhl3WeUghOLpvs6fLcqYHi8/5mx9uNlrkU++zTR14b0LrBMtd4HWon0+ON2T 8SYsiPhLuswEhAtd8xA3i/YEr1CX7WMgUDJS1ANFpJARgP44DxYIg6hoJjm6ClmnyW IQnTLm+tLDJ8g+zlngBoKRa8ua8aVLsDwGqrq2SAhXjhTT2F1reAZ4M6wReTqnr6LV Kvom8BNCsdi9l3zQjqOoboUqFBeFIcR1KCwMsctBRS3n96z3bds1quTSN3iTAACwo5 a15CUp+TTs9gQ== Subject: Re: Practice of "Sponsored by" in commit messages To: Maxim Sobolev Cc: FreeBSD Ports References: <3cc77471-4200-1f45-e83d-2ae4d636f4fa@saltant.com> <732c3f40-1765-6883-dbec-f5c77db8e30c@saltant.com> From: "John W. O'Brien" Autocrypt: addr=john@saltant.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFpcMG0BEACeAEQ0ZTUEH+6B8XIBid2H8g1yY+niHxVphqz8JwnQtYX+bS+Kl3vr783F HH81DEbfPtYgHY53NF9FjSzCyj13lXVnEGQOdxXzZVKsN1nyuXCN2hDOFH7Yc5yQ8h85T4Hv sqPIGIXOztu4MX14iUAcTgLhfibNQBeKDeNI+BBeaE9lPuNVeiM+xsI4JYcjmDbjFzAHRpBo ull0koUFh6RZAKE7u17yLej1pTIQQVjQpWdK37BAq4hdkLwjGDY8mDGo3ZwGdNibxIAxv/wi KU6u2DfUg8+kLHIhOqk/+kFQ/uK5YA1azsyD5eIbNAs4W7LglA6SkiGBglTwkP0VCrkPdD14 6sx3U7uFgexDWbVuhLIkcPQ0SRmnjgUKHgk7px/jMvAPKSKoL0JQNdP/+pnO9CDLGmoHx9gE 5kVr5dQK8c/WauEfimAdE9qLuN6vb0Iei73q3e3OOHAUusR5wC5SwXt4iilbaK4r04NKXyfb SB3+qWST07F9cmMscfEStSBhpez3awB+1jz8gr40tkEGsFZGvD2KKAgZdKpoxv6IrZepclWz HpqHF01SRFORYMsd1d83XlEu/S1/Z9YJ87RoCdZuYCkjnoRPtpTi9d+JD/u3ZiQFwLUz/Ne3 VqiGKvY66EGcO3tvANMg6GWD9sqlnBDp9Lls0ChEY3dgDYd6DQARAQABzSJKb2huIFcuIE8n QnJpZW4gPGpvaG5Ac2FsdGFudC5jb20+wsGUBBMBCAA+AhsDBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMB Ah4BAheAFiEENPkbBr3zmPAVSH2HM8TWS4ldvzsFAlpcMTMFCQX2qcYACgkQM8TWS4ldvztT xQ//eHb1mgd40Z0fN2GnJti6/9uJ771IO6slFQ02GZcXZI+FIQo8Yd1dHe0e0Codu78qvJNr ggUtqdxH6SVp7K1AWHeLH5S0PF6iG5B+YUux080wEv/Mr8PPMgAD8gS3wiPDDgB/kUXO52bn DC3Fc0dUrFE/JAOByVEEDL5nLF6SQNpAtIUnaAIIuhKxi0d40LMcLUwuJ6jExynw8Iu7OVtu Y1PRAH5ESt6wYZq8ro8ukh4rMOxiWtT1yNEgHgnq3N4jKErVo87YJijHSSj80IKxUiKb/T6K tGTEBTKiSUV3OFj0ZoPxcbUmhIg2sBCNHaUCiI0KabqN1NyK2glKtcK6NpWy3JIHvtr3+VL1 /tvQTwlVUIacmsuxkGzm5vJPs/i2RtwsJXEXPmIRNgJ1EwZgpg5VqqEUDlmSyRLb48QcDrdv utKLA1MKLib1fD+0XmxZTbCMlFMlvJjAoBlVq60mvB/Jnv1TTnZ2eN6DKMWoxHKmPICh5F1q esmT/aJRIUoCiAgcChi4Ol4XmW3dM7ypjKCGHzyr6emCky5pjqSQZyFzg0RN5UjUQBISAGmJ E8hCFZIy7tf8meqIDbtkONh+JShN6u3t02JrnzSOQjZCh5WQW9Pnu7unJlIsYB10aZ6rvuAK YjghT8QLG8QVgJj/U9oeVG1Ag60fmLZdOFjRGmnOwU0EWlwwbQEQANebvidw1D5SKSmG3Ut8 p9vngBi5HjYe4FSYcfz0NgYa893RiScQ6yjOwuEf/fEoBgvpVnhcbu0JsaYvDNNzFGzPQcj0 CFhkr5s7REWNLGmmFCxCaGieTxIQdYsLxwn72mops8bsrL0a++8NDE+l7X4K3EUyp9GP7pIq 4l9jeIJ/RnX3yySRlXxcM3P+DV9ltXsnQ9pC/qEVVyK18C1zoiskhxmAY9cv9TJOaANHtA7R 7+hM5TyppIz7kqiwiCf6XfVFqKH0I0srdamb0KTnAZpmyx7iNKYl60PdIfEwkwck8fcGwOSA lwE9CLkHLwKMjx/gF3xRag5xjOdP/Out0cQ/pXv8DWnKblWbiGZheB4xUqhOT9Cj/8u/tKtC 51C9wID26hsrhtSAMJPUwQoo/SwLNEd1JpkqUP1njOdlV8FmM1EozHLPSvwlTm6oWwubkkY6 QkUHqXuO+2VdNhyDfx23fQhd0UPhQ0ceDRnjaSB9ycWqpktBP5iNQajYbx5Ktt8fC2Y+Ztjo u1KY7wJSUzqh7uZgR1TqIOVZp7bdPLBGHW5eNEf0Awq17utGe6d9i4hPmeNqELUz71hjmABm bIQJ+VgqYcQ0T/PrjwhzHv5g3jn67/ftW91nlTNpbhwm8suIdPA1hF6vgnZ3B4+JsevnevLG yU6YCb0OOKleP6pZABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQ0+RsGvfOY8BVIfYczxNZLiV2/OwUC WlwxTQUJBBV2YAAKCRAzxNZLiV2/O2PnD/wMKz/rzYbf0SaTvgae4jqryrcWRta56dcnVe7W KPuUu4Q/WBGhXKeCfPrlr399bILxZGw5TXuGMjS8gEoMd81PEMcWaMpgg3F569Cxd9GN6AZd LXXrZa0aM7dvZkz98ymILEnqHMpF74sLvZY2PrsOwo2gKXNqhtCJ2ph8OUKhG+NHvAomjMu9 lPQMkXJ4HRV0OljawqAe4y+IFu2K4abWwZw1mdniTCb5al8V2umzf26QL0DgeFp3banlfjYW Dn5cRuDBQqIoR/6cQaKdFKTJYiTVK3p3WRWiJQniYi39S8CR646w+zVi7ax1shSB0r0lxIFo CZu285HcMd7HsHH+T2ZI45ilayUoyoZvxPPlwhiRzyYZ6qqAAXKDihhda7uNApUqLwoSn5FW njmx6KdlVPF9ycCdf+in5k6nVlHWG15ogF/Y96K+/Q1Iuod9rzWqT4bz9a5olY8r++QE3V1b H3z803wXEUAJg+WGTkYXFNw7w6RhSSEhBRzupDoCROSkRhe3vQGy5FLG+BMV9n9nevhj5sBx CM1BbNBdB5H/2RcXh0wSb6zjewgs3UAbBvCQOdMAMo8XpYM5SLBqtaY7oalBElTxtFnwSNJm hMbahYE/wHbkmMqalrzGyQxbSUdrmE64CIX8xmv47fnjRoTZMzKim/02MRH+Ss1M+rLzpw== Organization: Saltant Solutions Message-ID: <7b14a5c4-7320-8f5e-b8c3-f49809caf9e5@saltant.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 20:20:15 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1CQLsHzuPyQgyL3eKHLDX02hCVUheRdqO" X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 00:20:22 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --1CQLsHzuPyQgyL3eKHLDX02hCVUheRdqO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HJuvQcnkyzvQp2onCCxenCFmIDdSb4ZTl"; protected-headers="v1" From: "John W. O'Brien" To: Maxim Sobolev Cc: FreeBSD Ports Message-ID: <7b14a5c4-7320-8f5e-b8c3-f49809caf9e5@saltant.com> Subject: Re: Practice of "Sponsored by" in commit messages References: <3cc77471-4200-1f45-e83d-2ae4d636f4fa@saltant.com> <732c3f40-1765-6883-dbec-f5c77db8e30c@saltant.com> In-Reply-To: --HJuvQcnkyzvQp2onCCxenCFmIDdSb4ZTl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018/05/17 19:36, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > Well, if your=C2=A0 employer feels=C2=A0 slighted it's for him to bring= it up with > you (see my previous rant on the amount and scope of the credit and who= > parties involved). And then for you to bring it up with me if you feel > brave enough. :) I don't see how and why FreeBSD project can help in > this highly hypothetical scenario by putting some rules around. Do we > have any real-world examples of this happening, bring me at least one > out of probably tents of thousands of times people used "Sponsored by" > in their commit messages. Just a single one, please! ) The FreeBSD project could help by asking committers to qualify "Sponsored by" lines to indicate which participant(s) is(are) sponsored, in way that is equivalent to the way that the actual work itself is customarily attributed. Examples showing this idea in action: r470149 | krion PR: 228292 [1], 227223 [2] Submitted by: maintainer [1], 0mp@ [2] [Interpretation: The maintainer did some work to prepare a patch, 0mp did some work to prepare a patch, and krion combined the patches and performed the commit.] r470018 | kan Reviewed by: jhb, bapt [Interpretation: kan prepared a patch, jhb and bapt reviewed it, kan committed it.] Examples where I perceive no problem: r470130 | truckman PR: 228172 Approved by: Leo Vandewoestijne (maintainer) Sponsored by: Farsight Security, Inc. [Interpretation: truckman did the work on Farsight company time; Leo signed-off, but did little or no work, and either doesn't have a sponsor or chose not to credit the sponsor.] r469997 | mat PR: 228149 Reported by: Niels Bakker Sponsored by: Absolight [Interpretation: Niels called attention to a problem, but did little or no work on producing a patch, and either doesn't have a sponsor or chose not to credit the sponsor; mat did the work to produce a patch on Absolight company time.] Examples showing where improvement is needed: r469984 | dteske Reviewed by: mat (mentor; earlier version), imp (mentor), dbaio Approved by: imp (mentor) Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D15415 [Uncertainty: Was the review by mat, imp, and dbaio all done on Smule company time? Doesn't mat work for Absolight? Maybe he was working on his own time for this one. Maybe acting as a mentor takes hardly any time. Possible improvements include "Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. (dteske)", or "Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. (dteske), Absolight (mat)", or..= =2E] r469709 | miwi PR: 228117 Submitted by: maintainer Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. [Uncertainty: Does the maintainer work for iXsystems too? Did the sponsorship cover preparation of the patch or just the work to commit it? Possible improvements include "Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. (miwi)", or "Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. (miwi, maintainer)", or...] Are non-committer contributors entitled to specify sponsorship credits? Should I start requesting sponsorship credit under the name of my small, one-man consulting operation? If I do, would that discourage committers from taking my bugs who want to be able to credit their own employers for the commit? > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:29 PM, John W. O'Brien > wrote: >=20 > On 2018/05/17 19:18, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > > John, no, not really, sorry. Work is done, credit is given. The f= orm and > > amount of this credit is between whoever does the work and whoeve= r is > > being credited. I don't see why is there any third-party to be in= volved > > in governing whether or not this credit is "appropriate", "suffic= ient" > > or "all encompassing" for the work in question. This is just a cr= edit, > > it does not affect the quality of work, nor the license (which is= > > 2-clause BSD) nor the copyright holder. Three things that really = matter > > long-time. So "Sponsored by" it's just the message on the t-shirt= , > > having only meaning to whoever produces the piece and whoever wea= rs it, > > but nothing in particular to the outside world. IMHO. >=20 > I fear that you and I are still not on the same page. The differenc= e > between a t-shirt and a commit message is that two or three or four= > people can all do work on the same commit, but only one person can = wear > a t-shirt. >=20 > Taking the analogy further, if you hang a t-shirt with your employe= r's > logo on a piece of work that you and I collaborated to produce, don= 't > you think my employer might feel slighted? What if I had done 80% o= f the > work? >=20 > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:43 PM, John W. O'Brien > > >> wrote: > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2018/05/14 20:14, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> What's wrong with a current practice. Why is= it of any concern to you, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> John? Just curious that is not very clear fr= om your message. It is like > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> someone trying to moderate what people in ge= neral or some group in > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> particular (e.g. freebsd committers) are all= owed to put on their > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> t-shirts just because you find it offensive = or inappropriate. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't find crediting sponsors offensive nor = inappropriate. Quite the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contrary. What I find problematic is when mult= iple people do work, not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0all with sponsorship or the same sponsorship, = and only one person's > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sponsor is mentioned in a way that seems to im= ply that all the work was > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sponsored. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What I'm proposing is not to end or ban the pr= actice, but to improve and > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0refine it so that sponsors are credited for wh= at they sponsor and not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for what they don't sponsor. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Is that clearer? > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Mon, May 14, 2018, 4:40 PM John W. O'Brie= n > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >>> wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hello FreeBSD Ports, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Committer's Guide sec= tion on Commit Log Messages [0], > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn't cover > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the use of the "Sponsored= by" key word. As a non-committer > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contributor, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it only recently occurred= to me to wonder what work that > credit is > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0intended to represent, an= d whether some light definition > would be > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0helpful to reduce ambigui= ty. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When a committer credits = a sponsor of theirs, from which the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contributor > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0received no sponsorship, = the portrayal feels a little > awkward. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Does this > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0strike the list as a prob= lem, and if so, how ought it be > solved? > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To make this concrete, al= low me to illustrate the situation. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alice, working on her own= time, prepares and contributes a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0patch. Bob, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0who works for Acme Corp, = reviews and commits the patch on > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0company time. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The commit message includ= es "Sponsored by: Acme Corp". Alice > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0eagerly > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0awaits her check from Acm= e Corp. Should the commit message > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have read > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Sponsored by: Acme Corp = (Bob)"? > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This could be extensible = to multiple sponsorships. If, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0instead, Alice > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prepares the patch having= received a grant to do so from > Best > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sys Dev, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the commit message could = state "Sponsored by: Acme Corp > (Bob), > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best Sys > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dev (Alice)". > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[0] > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0=C2=A0https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/co= mmitters-guide/article.html#commit-log-message > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PS: I realize that this i= ssue transcends ports, but it's not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0clear where > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I should send this instea= d, and this list seems like it > would > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reasonably high concentra= tion of people with a stake in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion. --=20 John W. O'Brien OpenPGP keys: 0x33C4D64B895DBF3B --HJuvQcnkyzvQp2onCCxenCFmIDdSb4ZTl-- --1CQLsHzuPyQgyL3eKHLDX02hCVUheRdqO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEKpEHkkRoSDiIJkQOWPtK56pP/m4FAlr+HD8ACgkQWPtK56pP /m6J6AgArxVqEitFkhKN23kesufMmaBbyTjqH/cm0vaFNc6azbai03B18w9cQPxZ m6xa6lQPEYh+kfqIMPmvGFp80KfXPVRZSaaGtYSfbLZw1IiEhrDlPyjdrtkLJPm6 j6ApRWGZ5jYs8tCHcBWAHS36ST9ah7VldhpEVN/iQx93VM+Rtl+AoDflT1pMuKHs ovGWZTy7meW+67/zhyQbavStL6VdlTw2IxLaQshnqb+4l4WIcpEQMB1iDbWi5ax5 mPUJ7S2ICTnBgJHuB52tUBe00Y/PnHUkwrTtNyskEIiVv4VkoTGfRtq4SsaUTGaW f1K5/79l2qUW8V+HPpDIaJ8Ocqmv9A== =UtGT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1CQLsHzuPyQgyL3eKHLDX02hCVUheRdqO--