From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Apr 18 13:58:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332D937BB7B for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24465 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:58:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA02210 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:58:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2EB37B598; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA82287; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:58:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:58:00 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Kris Kennaway Cc: "C. Stephen Gunn" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Outdated rdist in FreeBSD Base Message-ID: <20000419065759.W3179@welearn.com.au> References: <20000418184259.U3179@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 12:29:36PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 12:29:36PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Sue Blake wrote: > > > v6 works fundamentally differently to and is incompatible with the old > > rdist, if ours is the same as the old rdist that was in BSD/OS. It is > > quite unfortunate that two programs using different protocols have been > > given the same name. > > If this is true then we could have two rdist ports, an rdist5 one which is > compatible with legacy systems and the more modern rdist6 port. That'll give a convenient and easy answer to support questions. But what of the site that has scores of servers that have been using rdist for years, that upgrades FreeBSD and finds that a system failure is due to rdist suddenly being absent, installs the new program named rdist with the higher version number, changes the scripts to suit it, and has two consecutive nights of failed crons before discovering that the two "versions" of rdist are different programs? If 50 machines of various types suddenly have to have a new rdist compiled on each of them, this represents a real $ cost. At least it'd be nice to know before the incident rather than after, and the forced solution should involve changing the least number of machines. Upgrading a basic utility is not as simple on other systems, and here we are talking about a program specifically used for interacting with other systems. For example, at my work we have a particular Dynix/ptx system that has refused to compile most of what has been tried, and one Digital UNIX system that we have agreed not to alter for a few weeks while work is being done on a new database. "Install the newer program" is not as simple as it sounds, when you are running non-FreeBSD systems which is exactly where rdist is often used. You're not just demanding that FreeBSD systems upgrade, you're demanding that all of them be upgraded or risk multiple failures. That's a big ask. If the alternative is to provide a second port, then people need to be warned when upgrading FreeBSD that rdist no longer exists in the base system, and the differences between the ports needs to be explained well to the majority who haven't heard of these incompatibilities before. We're talking about the potential cost of two nights of network-wide cron failures plus adding a new program to multiple non-FreeBSD systems under time pressure. But let's get this into perspective. Hell, if that kind of problem only happens to one or two large commercial sites and to nobody that we know personally, I guess it's not very important, is it? :,) I would argue, referring to its documentation, that rdist6 expects to find the old rdist on the system somewhere with the name "oldrdist" in order to do all that it can do. Therefore if there is not an "oldrdist" file included with the base system (my preference), it should be installed _with_ the rdist6 port in order to offer rdist6's complete functionality. That would not solve all of the problems I have raised (rdist still disappears to ports), but it would be a compromise that would show some respect for those using FreeBSD seriously. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message